Apocalypse Now (1979)

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He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond

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the pale of any acceptable human conduct, and he is

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still in the field of commanding.

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Troops terminate with extreme prejudice.

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Welcome to the Cinematic Flashback Podcast. Get ready to hop

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into the wayback machine as we journey through the wild, bold,

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and unforgettable films of the nineteen seventies. Each episode, we'll

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break down a classic movie or forgotten Jim by exploring

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the who's who of each film, diving into the premise

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and plot, seeing how it performed then and now, and

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wrapping things up with our final question, did a group through.

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The decades or lose its beak?

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Today we'll be going upriver into the heart of darkness

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with Francis Ford Coppola's Apocalypse.

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Now.

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Matt is taking a little R and R this week,

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but returning is Aaron Mullinix and she is joined by

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her husband Big Duke six I mean Will, who recommended

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today's movie. Aaron and Will. Welcome to the show.

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And thank you for joining me. Hey glad to be here.

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Thank you. Huh night again, Oh Aaron, We had a

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lot of fun talking about Superfly last time we did

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I have to tell you. I don't know what happened

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last month, but that episode started tracking up and it

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is now like the third top downloads that we've had

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for cinematic flashback after two nineteen seventy one films, which

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was Dirty Harry and The French Connection. So Dirty Harry,

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French Connection, Superfly.

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Well, that's because it's the coolest movie of the three.

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It definitely has the coolest soundtrack. Can we agree to

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that one? So will tell me a little bit about yourself.

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What's your relationship with Apocalypse Now? What prompted you to

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recommend it?

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Well, a Apocalypse Now is probably, if not my favorite

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movie of all time, It's definitely one of the all

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time greats in my opinion. If I had to make

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a list of top five movies acrossed any decade or

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just in general, Apocalypse Now would be on the list.

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It's just the first time I saw it, I feel

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that it carried me deeper into I guess the Vietnam conflicts.

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I just don't think that there's a war movie out

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there like Apocalypse Now. I guess that's the best way

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I could put it. It just seems unique to me.

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What is your favorite movie from the nineteen seventies, fritt,

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I mean yeah, I had one favorite to be Apocalypse Now,

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okay for sure, okay, great close second would be God

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The Godfather Again Part one and two.

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What did you think of the Conversation?

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Have you seen that one with Geene had Conversation?

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No?

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I haven't gotten seen that one yet.

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So if you like Francis four Coppola, you cannot go

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wrong with his four films of the seventies, Godfather, Godfather

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Part Two, The Conversation, and Apocalypse.

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Now, before we get too.

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Deep into this conversation, let's go ahead and listen to

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the trailer for Apocalypse Now.

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I'd't been a soldier since I was nineteen, and I

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still haven't learned how to wait for him. I wanted

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a mission for my sins. They gave me one. Nobody'd

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ever gone on a mission like it before, and when

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it is over, I never want another one.

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Your mission is set up the nung River and the

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Navy Patrol will pick up Colonel Kurtsi's path at New Mangba.

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When you find the colonel Infiltrator's team by whatever means available,

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and terminate the colonel's command terminate.

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Terminate is extreme prejudice.

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I ought to say, I'm not supposed to know what

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I'm taking this boat, so I don't.

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But one look at you and I know it's going

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to be hot.

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We'll pick your.

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One up and put it down like a baby, right

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where you want it. This is the person of the

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night Air cavs on.

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Well love Me and Moil of the Isaacs Sun and

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about a mile I'll put all the music scares the

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hell out of the soaps.

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My boys love it. I love the smell of night

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palm in the morning.

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Smell Pike Victory.

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Man, this has been in Disneyland.

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I'm short, and we gotta go up there so you

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can kill one of our own guys.

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He's a commanding officer here joke.

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He was close.

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He was real clubs. I couldn't see him, but I

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could feel him.

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These are all his children, man, As far as you

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can see, they think you've come to Uh to take

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him away, and I hope that is the true.

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Could we uh talk to Colonel Kirks.

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You don't talk to the colonel well when you're listening

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to him?

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Are you an assesssin, I'm a soldier, you're an errand

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boy fine cloth.

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It looks collectabil.

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So let's start with the first time you saw Apocalypse Now.

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Do you remember what your reaction was, and was it,

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I don't know, love it first napalm or did it

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take some time to settle in Aaron Well.

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The first time I saw Apocalypse Now was yesterday. Officially,

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I watched it in parts because it's a very long movie,

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and so I actually started watching it about a week

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ago and I got through about thirty minutes. It was

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right before the famous scene, the flight of the Knockers.

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But just in that thirty minutes, it was hard to

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stop it because I wanted to keep going. It was

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I was hugged, I was invested in it. My impression

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was I don't need to take any drugs because this

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is this is life, kid and acid trip. The thing

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that I really liked was the very beginning of the

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movie where Captain Willard.

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He's in the hotel room and he's, you know, having

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his kind of based out moments. Was that they used

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the song by the Doors the end, and I thought, oh,

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this is the beginning of the movie, but this is

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the song, and that song shows up throughout the movie,

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and I feel like that kind of gives it a theme,

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like it's always the end.

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The end is there in every moment throughout the movie.

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So that was kind of my first impression.

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But I liked it.

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I liked it.

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I'm going to drop in with my first impression because

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yesterday wasn't my first time that I saw it.

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I had to be back in college, so I'm.

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Working at a video store. I have my copy of

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The Godfather. Loving The Godfather, Let's watch Apocalypse now.

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And I didn't like it.

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And the reason I didn't like it was because number one,

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like you said, it was very long, right, Yeah, it

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seems like this was a film that had these little

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little episodes as they travel up the river, and then

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I just I just felt like it was really long,

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and I didn't really understand what the movie was about.

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I don't think I invested because if you get to

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the first thirty minutes or the first forty minutes, you

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get to the helicopter scene, the one that everyone knows

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it has that famous line from Robert Deval I love

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the smell of napalm in the morning.

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I never knew where that came from because I never

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seen the movie. And then I saw it like cool. Now,

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I get it. It's ridiculous.

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It's great when those little quotes that have been around

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forever it comes to you and you're like oh, and

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then you ask yourself, what does napalm smell like? Well,

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it smells like gasoline, because it's essentially what it is,

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you know, smells like victory.

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I want to say one more thing about this first

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impression thing too, because way back when we first talked

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about doing a podcast on this movie and I had

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mentioned it to you, William had come downstairs after watching

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this and he's like, this is the greatest movie ever.

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You have to say. Mean, he was just talking it up,

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and so that kind of maybe bias did a little bit.

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I mean, it's not a movie that I would just

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put on to watch and enjoy just chilling out.

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And even I was holding back because I didn't want

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to bias it too hard. Yes, I didn't do a

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good job. What was your first impressions? Well, I think

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Eric just gave you my first impression.

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Okay, So just so everyone knows, there are like, I think,

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what three three versions of the film.

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The theatrical REDUCS final cut, I believe.

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Yes, yes, those were it and I believe the main

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difference is that the theatrical release was cut down and

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it focused more on pacing then.

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I think in the Reducts he.

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Added more scenes, and in the final cut, which was

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released in twenty nineteen, he pulled out one of the scenes,

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remastered it in four K and the audio into Dolby Adama.

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Which ones did you guys watch yesterday?

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The one we have is the final cut?

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Oh?

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Is that the one I watched?

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William?

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You did?

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That's the one we have?

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Oh?

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Okay, all right, well that's the one. I thought it

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was the original one that I was watching.

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I've never even seen the theatrical copy. Actually interesting, I

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was going to.

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Say, the final cut is the one that I understand

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is Francis Ford Coppola's favorite, or that, yes, the one

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that he wanted to make all the along.

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Yes, I think that one of the scenes cut out

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in the theatrical was the French plantation scene. And if

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you watch the making of Apocalypse Now, which I recommend

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everybody do, it's an excellent film in its own right.

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There's a scene where he is saying, we're never going

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to be able to use it because the light is

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no good or the setting is no good, but with

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technology they were able to go back and then reprocess

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it so that it looks as great as it does.

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And for me on my four K TV with Dolby

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atmosts around, it's an experience. The sound, the video, everything,

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it's just amazing.

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It's so funny about the French plantation scene because William

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told me if I wanted to skip apart, that that

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would be the part to skip, because it's so it.

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Was so long, not because I didn't like it. I

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know it was a great addition, but if you skip

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the implantation scene, that wouldn't be the worst thing to do.

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Yeah, but I didn't. So.

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The thing about Poculist now that sets it apart also

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is that for me it feels like an impressionists vision

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of the war. It's not trying to be an historically

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accurate representation of events. I still think it gives the

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most accurate impression of the war.

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I get that, how would painter paint a picture to

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describe war? And there are a lot of great paintings

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that exist, but how do you evoke an emotion from

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whoever is watching it? And I really think that's what

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Coppola is doing in this film, is he's painting a picture.

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He might not have thought of it in those terms,

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but he's this picture. This is this piece of art

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that he's created. Is meant to provoke a reaction from

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the viewers who have seen it, But that's my first thoughts.

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Yeah, it conveys the reality of the situation, but not

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in an accurate way, Like when you look at an

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impressionist painting, you're not looking at what it actually looked like,

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you're looking at the feeling. I guess it invokes some people.

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I feel like Podcast Now is like, you know, the

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film version of that for the Vietnam War.

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I like what you said William about it transporting you,

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because I think that's definitely what it does as opposed

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to other movies about the war and kind of just

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just telling a story.

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This takes you there.

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You feel it. The time I got to the end

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of the movie, I was like, where am I? It

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like really just transports you. You feel like you're going

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on a It's like an odyssey that's injected with Nate

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palm and acid. Oh man, that's what you feel like,

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like you've just been on an odyssey.

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That is an incredible description, but I do want to

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let people know, and I should have said this at

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the top of the show. We're going to be talking spoilers.

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If you haven't seen Apocalypse now, please go and watch it.

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We'll still finish up the rest of this episode. Actually,

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we're just gonna wait for you to watch it and

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then we'll continue. So just please email us when you're done.

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We'll start.

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I'm just going to get another cup of tea while

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we wait.

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Just care, just just a little bit of time here,

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we'll take a quick intermission here, just enough time to

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grab some popcorn or top off your drink. You're listening

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to the Cinematic Flashback podcast.

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Stay tuned.

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The show continues right after this, and we're back. Hope

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you enjoyed that brief intermission. Now let's roll the next

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reel and get back into the conversation. Who stood out

256
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:43.279
to you the most.

257
00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.879
Definitely a kill Glore. For sure. He's obviously loving the war,

258
00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.480
but at the same time, this is things about being

259
00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:52.120
at home, like surfing. If you look at the characters

260
00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:55.879
of say Willard and Kurtz, those guys they cannot function

261
00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:58.600
outside of war. That's not something they can do. But

262
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:00.840
with kill Gore. You seem like he loves the war.

263
00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:02.960
But I feel like with kil Gore he could function

264
00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:05.960
in this world because he has another passion, which is surfing.

265
00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:07.879
Aaron who stood out.

266
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.840
To you, Well, there's a couple. I mean, obviously kil Gore.

267
00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:13.440
My first impression of him was he's a nut bag.

268
00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.279
But I think for me, well, Dennis Hopper's character the

269
00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:20.960
photographer and he had me laughing. And it was funny

270
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.320
because even going back to Kilbowy, if I didn't know

271
00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.879
anything about this movie, you know, like when I get

272
00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.120
to that scene where we meet Colonel Kilgore, I would

273
00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:31.879
have thought this was some kind of satire, you know, honestly,

274
00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.759
the way that he was, you know, between I'm gonna,

275
00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.200
you know, help this poor man, give him water from

276
00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:42.519
my candy, oh, surfing, Oh, you know, it's like, you know, oh, squirrel, squirrel, Right.

277
00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:44.720
If I didn't know, that's what I would have thought.

278
00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.879
But definitely Dennis Hopper's characters trip right there at the

279
00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:51.440
end and kind of adds, you know, some spice to

280
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:55.039
a very creepy part of the movie, I think. But

281
00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.759
I liked the chef. Actually, I really enjoyed his performance,

282
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.039
and you know, like all the guys on the boat,

283
00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:04.679
they haven't been jaded yet. They don't really maybe know

284
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.480
what they're getting into, and so they kind of learned that.

285
00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:09.679
And I see that a lot with Chef. I like

286
00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.120
how his character evolves through the movie, and you know,

287
00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.200
he becomes more mature.

288
00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:16.600
By the end.

289
00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:19.360
Was there any scenes that you wanted to talk about?

290
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.240
See One scene that stood out to me when I

291
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.279
first watched it was the puppy boat scene. What bow,

292
00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.840
Let's take a look, man, you're a sexty chap get

293
00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.320
a sixteen, right, you.

294
00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:35.240
Know, not sixtad.

295
00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:40.000
What's up Jason.

296
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.399
Jog boat Captain, We're gonna take a routine check. Well,

297
00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:47.120
let's forget routine now let him go.

298
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.879
He's about to run his placids down to Captain.

299
00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.440
I'm gonna take a look, jee.

300
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:54.559
My missions got priority here.

301
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.000
Hell, you wouldn't you be in a part of the river.

302
00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:00.240
What would make until we read your destination captain going

303
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.519
for the ride. The Chief wanted to stop the boat,

304
00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.600
and Willard was like, this is not part of the mission,

305
00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:07.799
and the Chief is like, it's my boat, and he

306
00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.279
orders Chef on to search it more thoroughly. So when

307
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.360
he gets to the container where the puppy is held.

308
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.200
The woman freaks out, runs across. She's a frayed for

309
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.159
the puppy, and Kleen, who's the youngest guy, overreacts and

310
00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:23.279
he opens up and just slaughters everybody on the boat.

311
00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:25.720
And I guess what was the most interesting to me

312
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:29.679
about that scene was Willard's reaction. Well, the chief he

313
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.559
wanted to take I guess the woman was still alive.

314
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.279
He wanted to go get her medical attention. Basically, Willard's

315
00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:37.159
calling out the hypocrisy of you killed everybody on the boat,

316
00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:38.639
one person survived, and now you want to give the

317
00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:40.600
medical attention. I mean, the only reason she needs medical

318
00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:42.799
attention is because you stopped the boat to begin with.

319
00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:44.519
Bring her on board.

320
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:45.960
We're taking it to an Arvin.

321
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:47.639
Look, get what are you talking about.

322
00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:50.080
We're taking it to some friend his captain. She's wounded,

323
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:50.759
she's not dead.

324
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.960
Yeah, the book says, captain.

325
00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:05.919
I told you not to stop.

326
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:10.840
No, let's go. So it's kind of like the theme

327
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:13.399
of the Vietnam War and microcosm. If we weren't there,

328
00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:15.399
these people wouln't have needed all this medical attention to

329
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.639
begin with. So that's why I like the scene is

330
00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:20.600
because it's kind of in your face and it's not

331
00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:22.679
something that you've witnessed before. It's really gonna stick with you.

332
00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:24.399
I think I wanted to just chime in on that

333
00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.559
because that I didn't see that scene coming, and I

334
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.200
know that they were stopping them because they wanted to

335
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.159
see if they were transporting weapons. And it's just I guess,

336
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:37.360
a family and they have their produce and their animals

337
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.000
on board, and they're just doing what they do, living

338
00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:44.320
their lives, and you could see in their faces the fear.

339
00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.159
They don't know what's going on. They don't speak English,

340
00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:50.039
and they just see these soldiers with guns. They're you know,

341
00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.919
basically boarding their bold and you can see the fear

342
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.840
in their faces and they're so afraid. Oh it's a

343
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.080
saynd for us. The end, there's that theme again, but

344
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:01.960
that's it was very upsetting because I thought, oh, well,

345
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.879
maybe they're going to find some weapons on there or something,

346
00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:05.240
and then all of a sudden, no, they don't. They

347
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:07.759
find a puppy, but then they end up killing all

348
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.440
these people because they overreacted. It was very disturbing and sad,

349
00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.720
but then I think it I didn't like it, but

350
00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:19.799
what Captain Willard did by just going up and ending

351
00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.519
that woman's life instead of them having to take her

352
00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:25.759
for medical attention, just really drove it home. And he's like,

353
00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:28.119
you shouldn't have stopped the boat. I told you not to.

354
00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:31.839
I feel like, yeah, Willard's reaction is the most honest one.

355
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.839
It may not be the most compassionate exactly response to it,

356
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:41.079
but it's the most honest because think about the logistics

357
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.200
of trying to get this woman in medical attention in

358
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:47.720
that environment. It just not it's not logical. It's most

359
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:49.480
likely she's just going to die, and she's going to

360
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:52.519
die slower. So he has the most logical, I guess

361
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.599
response to it, or most honest for sure.

362
00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:00.480
Let me ask you, guys, thinking about Chef's reaction, Chef,

363
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.799
did you ever think about what was his line after.

364
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.279
The tiger incident? Never get off the boat.

365
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:07.400
Or something, Never get off the boat.

366
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:09.359
Yeah, And they forced him to get off the boat,

367
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.160
and he was mad. He was so upset about that.

368
00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:14.480
He's like, this is ridiculous. So you could see it.

369
00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.279
He's just throwing produce around. He's like, oh, here's you know,

370
00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.880
where's the mangoes or whatever. He was just he didn't

371
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.039
want to be there. He thought it was a silly

372
00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:24.759
thing to do too philly chef.

373
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:26.599
He's like, he's not meant for the war. I think

374
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.119
that's that's probably the best way to put it. He's

375
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:31.279
a saucier, right, Yeah, he starts off, I'm a saucier.

376
00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:33.000
What am I doing here? I think if you had

377
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.480
to go one character who is the least meant for war,

378
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:37.599
it's probably chef.

379
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.839
But I think that that's why he is there. I

380
00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:41.920
think that's why we got so much character, Like we

381
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.480
learn more about Chef than anybody. So he tells that

382
00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.240
he's a saucier, wants a saucier. He was trained to

383
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.640
be a chef, and he was going to go into

384
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.160
the Navy to be a chef. But then he saw

385
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:57.319
how they cooked all of this beautiful meat and they.

386
00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:58.680
Just destroyed it.

387
00:18:58.880 --> 00:18:59.920
He says, I'm not going to do it.

388
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:01.119
I don't want to do this.

389
00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:01.839
Yeah.

390
00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:03.799
It's such a great character, and we got so much

391
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.160
more depth to him than anyone else.

392
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.759
I was going to say. The thing that stood out too,

393
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.680
is that he kept repeating, I just want to cook.

394
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:14.880
I just want to cook food. That's what he wants

395
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.000
to do.

396
00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.039
Yeah, he kept pretending or he kept saying things like

397
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.440
I'm not here. His whole theme the entire movie is

398
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.359
I'm not meant to be here. I shouldn't have been here,

399
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:23.480
which I think he conveys that that side of the war,

400
00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:26.759
so many soldiers and marines and everybody that was over

401
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.279
there didn't feel like they should be there.

402
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:32.359
That's like a really deep thought that many people did

403
00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.960
feel that way. I don't want to go. There were

404
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:37.559
people that dodged the draft, they'll left the country. They

405
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:39.920
did not want to go. They didn't want to be there.

406
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:41.799
They didn't feel like we should be there.

407
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.440
Yeah, I mean, you got a whole cross section in

408
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.839
the movie. You have a cross section of all these

409
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.680
types people that couldn't function outside of war, like Willier

410
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.920
than Kurts, and then you had people like Chef who

411
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.240
just were not meant to be there. But that goes

412
00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.960
back to the impressionist division. He's just trying to press

413
00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.920
upon everybody every aspect of the war.

414
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:02.759
I have something I want to add to this too.

415
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.240
It was a small moment, but it was very poignant,

416
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.000
and it was towards the end of the movie when

417
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.960
the captain of the boat Chief when they get attacked

418
00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:17.599
and it's not guns, it's the natives, and they're throwing

419
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:20.720
out spears from the banks of the river. And he

420
00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:25.160
gets killed. He gets speared, and he says it a

421
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:30.039
spear of all things. There are a lot of things

422
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:35.200
in that that I unpacked personally, just because of who

423
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.759
he was. And he's in the juckle and he's in

424
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:43.519
this war and he gets killed by a spear. And

425
00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:45.680
then it was just quick. It was quick and it

426
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.880
was done. But it was a very poignant scene.

427
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.519
I think it's a very absurd way to die in

428
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.559
this war. Of all things, it's a spear.

429
00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.880
I want to throw out this idea that we have

430
00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:02.119
two extremes that we see between Kilgore and kurtz Well.

431
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.039
You brought up the movie Platoon, and.

432
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.519
There's a line that Charlie Sheen's character says that he

433
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:09.640
feels like at the end of the movie he was

434
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:13.440
born of two fathers. I feel like in this film

435
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:18.480
there are two fathers that represent one of the themes

436
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:19.400
of the film.

437
00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.359
It has to do with a line that Kurt says.

438
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:29.759
Horror has a face and you must make a friend

439
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:37.960
of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If

440
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:42.359
they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.

441
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.119
You must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral

442
00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:50.000
terror are your friends. That was his philosophy of war.

443
00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:54.480
As long as American soldiers are serving one tour and

444
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:58.759
we're trying to make this as comfortable and homelike as possible,

445
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.880
we will never defeat this enemy.

446
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.400
Now let's go to the opposite end.

447
00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.480
We have kil Gore. Okay, he's always trying to make

448
00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:13.319
the war more like home, even to the point where

449
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.319
they're in a landing zone, mortars are going off all

450
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.759
over the place, and he's ordering his men to go

451
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:25.279
out and surf. Kil Gore is exactly the kind of

452
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.799
soldier that Kurtz is reacting against.

453
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:31.599
One line that really stood out that Willard said to

454
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:33.839
Kurtz is that you know he sees no method in

455
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.759
this bloyer, Like what method is there? Yeah, because Eve

456
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.680
runs into so many different people in his journey up

457
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.880
the river and he's not seeing a method anywhere. There's

458
00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:46.319
just it's just a madness. It's just an apocalypse. Well,

459
00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.920
the inspiration for kil Gore, actually, I guess from John

460
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:50.599
Millius said that he talked to Hi when his Vietnam

461
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.799
veteran friends. And there was a colonel in Vietnam who

462
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.599
would go hunting because again, you know, his passion was hunting,

463
00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:58.599
and so he's in the war and he would take

464
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:03.359
helicopters out into the Vietnam to go hunting. That was

465
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.759
part of his inspiration for Coolgor Kilgore has multiple inspirations,

466
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.440
but he said that was part of his inspiration. So

467
00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:11.079
it's like kind of reminds me of kil Gore, who's

468
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:12.599
always talking about surfing. Even though he's the middle of

469
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:14.160
the war, he still atually still prosecuting the war, but

470
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.440
he's not gonna give up on his hobby, right, Right,

471
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.720
Like I'm bringing some of America here.

472
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:22.119
I think that's what Kurtz was reacting against. Right, We

473
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.759
don't need to bring America here. What we need to

474
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:27.799
do is we need to defeat the enemy.

475
00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:31.519
Well, I was thinking that. I think it was in

476
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:33.759
the beginning, and because again I've only seen it once

477
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:35.279
and I feel like I need to watch it about

478
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.880
three or four more times. But there's two kinds of

479
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:42.839
people that were there. There were people who could go

480
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.160
there and do what they have to do and then

481
00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:48.880
come back home and move on with their lives, and

482
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.319
then they're the ones who basically crossed the border into

483
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.640
PTSD insanity and they were never going to be able

484
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.279
to come back. And I got the impression from the

485
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.920
very beginning Captain Willard is one of those people because

486
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.119
he can't function unless he's there. And obviously Kurtz is

487
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:09.440
also one of those people, but kil Gore is not.

488
00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:11.400
Kill Gore's there. He's going to do what he has

489
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.160
to do, but he's going to go home and he's

490
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.359
going to serve and he's going to be okay. And

491
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:19.079
so that that was my kind of take on the comparison,

492
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:23.680
the contrast between kill Gore and Kurtz, and I don't

493
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:25.559
know what lessons you could take from that.

494
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.839
It's interesting about kill Gore. He he kind of straddles

495
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:33.519
the line between someone like Chef and someone like Willard.

496
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.160
Chef he doesn't function well in war. Willard can only

497
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:38.960
function in war. Now, kill Gor's here, and he loves

498
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:41.240
the smell of an apole, but he also loves searching. Yes,

499
00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:43.880
he loves Buck and he's going to combine them till

500
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.160
the day Palm ruins the waves.

501
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.279
The sound of this film is really unforgettable, whether it's

502
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.759
from the doors to the choppers to the jungle silence.

503
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:55.559
So let's talk a little bit about the music and

504
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.000
the soundscape and how that shaped the experience of watching

505
00:24:59.000 --> 00:24:59.880
Apocalypse Now.

506
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.160
One of the things that really got me, and it

507
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:03.880
was just a little thing, one of those little things

508
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:06.960
on the boat they're going up the river. Mister Klean,

509
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.279
Lauren's fish friend character, he's got his drumsticks out and

510
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:13.480
he's just banging on stuff and banging on stuff and

511
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.240
banging on stuff, and it's a nice little beat, but51200:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.839



it's kind of annoying, and it's breaking up the silence51300:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.440



of the jungle, and in a way, just that kind51400:25:22.480 --> 00:25:24.200



of stressed me out when I was watching it, because51500:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.599



I'm like, maybe they should be quiet because they're an51600:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.160



enemy territory and he's just banging on making some beats.51700:25:30.519 --> 00:25:34.519



And it's also i feel like he's creating tension and51800:25:34.599 --> 00:25:38.519



anxiety with the crew of the boat through that. I'm51900:25:38.519 --> 00:25:40.640



surprised somebody in the movie didn't just sell them shut52000:25:40.720 --> 00:25:43.920



up stop that threw the sticks overboard. But that was52100:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.359



just like one of those little things along the way.52200:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.400



It wasn't a famous song or anything, but it was52300:25:49.480 --> 00:25:53.920



just the sounds and how they used that to create.52400:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.400



At least for me as a viewer watching the movie,52500:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.279



that's what it created for me. So that was one52600:25:59.319 --> 00:25:59.960



of those little things.52700:26:00.240 --> 00:26:02.640



Will pause here for just a moment. Think of it52800:26:02.720 --> 00:26:06.480



as a real change stick around. There's more cinematic flashback52900:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.720



coming up right after this, and we're back. The lights53000:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.599



are down, the film's rolling, and the final act begins.53100:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.279



Let's jump back into the Cinematic Flashback podcast.53200:26:23.039 --> 00:26:26.119



When I was being transported, I feel like the music53300:26:26.319 --> 00:26:28.920



was part of the mood. I almost didn't notice it,53400:26:28.920 --> 00:26:31.200



which is a huge compliment to the sound of the movie.53500:26:31.599 --> 00:26:33.279



I had to choose one scene I guess where the53600:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.759



mood and the music really stood out to me would53700:26:35.759 --> 00:26:40.279



be the dough lung Bridge scene where it's like a53800:26:40.519 --> 00:26:44.319



carnival of cartage but wasn't Lance he had dropped acid53900:26:44.440 --> 00:26:46.680



or something. He's like, I had that last hit of acid?54000:26:46.759 --> 00:26:47.480



Had I just dropped it?54100:26:47.720 --> 00:26:49.720



It made you feel that was one of those scenes54200:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.160



that made you feel like you were on acid too,54300:26:52.440 --> 00:26:57.079



because it kind of was slower, and just the way54400:26:57.119 --> 00:26:59.880



that they panned around the scene and the way that54500:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.000



they sounds all kind of you can hear the wires54600:27:04.079 --> 00:27:04.759



with the lights.54700:27:04.880 --> 00:27:06.880



I think that scene is put in show the ultimate54800:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.960



absurdity of what they're doing is just look at all this.54900:27:10.279 --> 00:27:12.880



This is madness, this scaos. And then you got the55000:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.200



scene with Roach. They call him in and she's echo55100:27:16.279 --> 00:27:18.279



locating the enemy so he can kill him. And then55200:27:18.319 --> 00:27:20.920



he's like barely even showing any emotion. And it's like55300:27:21.000 --> 00:27:22.799



these guys are all just put through the ring.55400:27:23.519 --> 00:27:24.359



They're not going to make it.55500:27:24.440 --> 00:27:32.680



Back about Roach, I think he's a guy who would55600:27:32.839 --> 00:27:37.039



fit in well with Kurtsi's team. So he's asleep, he's55700:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.440



not bothered by this. They wake him up, he comes over,55800:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.319



he turns off the Jimmy Hendrix music, he loads his55900:27:44.960 --> 00:27:49.039



grenade launcher and he fires it and kills the individual56000:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.519



who they were trying to shoot with so many bullets.56100:27:51.559 --> 00:27:54.440



So the other guys are using a machine gun and56200:27:54.599 --> 00:27:57.799



they are just throwing bullets after bullets. They're lighting off56300:27:57.920 --> 00:28:01.839



flares to try to find this guy, and they're completely ineffective.56400:28:02.440 --> 00:28:05.599



And that is the theme of the film, or one56500:28:05.640 --> 00:28:07.960



of the themes of the film. Again, we have too56600:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.960



many people, we have too much money that's come over56700:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.960



here to be able to throw away all these bullets56800:28:13.160 --> 00:28:15.039



and what we need is we need somebody who can56900:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.000



go up there and kill the enemy. And that's what57000:28:18.119 --> 00:28:21.240



I took away from that scene and how everything was57100:28:21.279 --> 00:28:21.880



all mad.57200:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.920



One of the things also in just the mood of57300:28:31.039 --> 00:28:35.079



the movie is the lighting. And it's funny because I57400:28:35.240 --> 00:28:38.519



was watching the movie last night and it didn't dawn57500:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.319



on me, and so William told me about this, and57600:28:41.440 --> 00:28:43.640



I wanted to mention it. William, you know more about57700:28:43.640 --> 00:28:46.559



it than I. But there was a lot of special57800:28:46.680 --> 00:28:51.079



focus on the lighting of the scenes and how that57900:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.319



affected the mood. I guess. Yeah.58000:28:54.359 --> 00:28:58.599



He had the cinematographer Tori Starro. He is well known.58100:28:58.759 --> 00:29:01.480



Su're using a lighting in and I think that scene58200:29:01.519 --> 00:29:04.720



really gets across the circus of carnage atmosphere going on,58300:29:04.839 --> 00:29:09.240



and his lighting, his cinematography compliments the mood of the scene.58400:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.960



I mean, the dude is a genius because his style58500:29:12.039 --> 00:29:13.880



is also going back to an impressionist or it's more58600:29:14.039 --> 00:29:17.920



I guess expressionist, prioritizing emotional response from the audience with58700:29:18.039 --> 00:29:20.480



his visuals. But I think that scene in particular just58800:29:20.640 --> 00:29:23.839



really conveys the emotion for the guys, like the grunts58900:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.039



on the ground, fighting it. And it also shows the59000:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.039



absurdity I guess up the war, because why are they59100:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.119



keeping the bridge. They keep rebuilding the bridge, and it59200:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.279



keeps getting destroyed, keeps rebuilding, it gets destroyed again, And59300:29:33.400 --> 00:29:34.960



just so a general can say the road's open, so59400:29:35.039 --> 00:29:37.359



he can get a promotion, and everyone else is suffering59500:29:37.400 --> 00:29:38.400



so he can say the roads open.59600:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.319



I would be remiss if I did not mention Carmine59700:29:42.400 --> 00:29:43.799



Coppola's score.59800:29:43.759 --> 00:29:46.119



Which was fabulous to me.59900:29:46.559 --> 00:29:49.240



I love that he works in a musical motif that60000:29:49.400 --> 00:29:54.880



is called an ostinado, and any musician will immediately go60100:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.599



to Gustav Holtz the Planet Suite, most particularly a movement60200:30:00.759 --> 00:30:08.680



called Mars the Bringer of War, and I thought it60300:30:08.799 --> 00:30:12.880



was really cool that this film brings in this connection60400:30:13.519 --> 00:30:17.640



to war through music, through the classics.60500:30:18.119 --> 00:30:25.240



The soundtrack was brilliant. It's so worth listening to. I60600:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.920



guess the musical motif. It almost sounded like a helicopter60700:30:28.160 --> 00:30:29.400



because it's a helicopter war.60800:30:29.799 --> 00:30:32.160



At the very beginning, as Willard is laying on his60900:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.559



bed in Saigon, I was just thinking of that, and61000:30:35.680 --> 00:30:38.119



he's looking at a ceiling fan, and the ceiling fan61100:30:38.279 --> 00:30:38.720



sounds like.61200:30:38.880 --> 00:30:39.720



The blades of a HUEI.61300:30:39.880 --> 00:30:42.440



Yeah, it's like they tied it to the visuals as well.61400:30:42.880 --> 00:30:46.680



Yeah, apparently that was an intentional They filmed the ceiling61500:30:46.759 --> 00:30:49.400



fan and then later in editing they were just integrated61600:30:49.480 --> 00:30:51.200



with the sound. They didn't set out to do that,61700:30:51.319 --> 00:30:53.240



but that's the way some of the great moments of61800:30:53.319 --> 00:30:53.880



film happened.61900:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.480



And that scene too, when he was in the hotel62000:30:56.559 --> 00:30:59.519



and Saigon, and I think was really cool because you62100:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.839



get Martin Sheen and the thousand yards there that he62200:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.119



has because he's staring up at the ceiling ban, he's62300:31:08.279 --> 00:31:09.359



just like dead until he.62400:31:09.359 --> 00:31:09.960



Has his mission.62500:31:10.200 --> 00:31:10.319



Right.62600:31:15.799 --> 00:31:17.920



I think Copola set out to tell a human story62700:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.039



and so that includes, you know, all the contradictions of humanity.62800:31:22.319 --> 00:31:23.839



I guess you could go back to kil Whar. Yeah,62900:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.119



he's he's sitting blowing up this village and causing all63000:31:26.119 --> 00:31:28.519



these injuries, and then this woman runs up to him63100:31:28.519 --> 00:31:30.839



with her baby, and he picks the baby up and63200:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.440



he's like, oh, his baby's got to go to the hospital,63300:31:32.480 --> 00:31:33.720



and then gives her back to the mother. You go63400:31:33.799 --> 00:31:35.279



with her, and then like he just blows up all63500:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.000



these people, but then he shows this compassion and the63600:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.200



same with and sends them off to the hospital via helicopter.63700:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.119



It's kind of showing I guess, every aspect of humanity63800:31:44.200 --> 00:31:46.720



and all its contradictions. I think that Copla set out63900:31:46.880 --> 00:31:49.359



to convey that, and I think he, you know, obviously64000:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.279



hit the nail on the head.64100:31:50.599 --> 00:31:55.079



Yeah, there's just the duality of human nature and that64200:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.599



we can bring ourselves to commit atrocities, but yet we64300:31:59.720 --> 00:32:04.680



still have this compassion in some way, even if it's warped.64400:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.119



I have to watch this probably five more times. But64500:32:07.480 --> 00:32:11.240



like Colonel Kurtz, I think somewhere in there he was64600:32:11.319 --> 00:32:14.240



good and then he just went off the rails and64700:32:14.559 --> 00:32:18.400



created some kind of weird cult in the jungle. That's64800:32:18.640 --> 00:32:22.119



that's what I got from that. But then other smaller64900:32:22.920 --> 00:32:26.279



things that just stood out throughout the movie. And you know,65000:32:26.359 --> 00:32:29.119



the guy what was his name, Roach, He just stood up,65100:32:29.519 --> 00:32:32.119



he took care of it, and Willard asked him, do65200:32:32.200 --> 00:32:33.319



you know who's in command here?65300:32:36.880 --> 00:32:37.119



Yeah?65400:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.920



Do you know who's in command here? And he said, yeah.65500:32:40.519 --> 00:32:43.319



It's an interesting parallel there because he's got black power65600:32:43.319 --> 00:32:46.559



written on his helmet and a white man's asking him,65700:32:46.599 --> 00:32:48.279



do you know who's in charge? And he looks at65800:32:48.279 --> 00:32:50.440



the guy and he's like, yeah, I know who's in charge.65900:32:51.440 --> 00:32:52.880



It's like obvious who's in charge here?66000:32:53.119 --> 00:32:56.480



My reference another movie. One of the things that came66100:32:56.559 --> 00:32:58.599



to mind last night when I was watching this one66200:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.880



is when to get to the bridge scene and they're66300:33:01.920 --> 00:33:04.319



talking about, yeah, we build it, and then they tear66400:33:04.359 --> 00:33:06.880



it down and we build it again. It made me66500:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.319



think the Bridge on the River Kwhy. You know in66600:33:10.440 --> 00:33:12.599



that movie they put all that word to build the bridge,66700:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.240



and there was a whole different theme and motive there.66800:33:15.319 --> 00:33:17.880



But in the end the bridge is blown up and66900:33:18.680 --> 00:33:21.559



I forget the character's name, but he's looking at it67000:33:22.000 --> 00:33:26.640



and the one thing he says is madness. And that67100:33:27.200 --> 00:33:30.079



those two things came together in my mind last night67200:33:30.160 --> 00:33:30.599



watching this.67300:33:31.480 --> 00:33:33.799



How would you compare it to, say, Stanley Kubrick's Full67400:33:33.839 --> 00:33:34.480



Metal Jacket.67500:33:34.680 --> 00:33:36.680



I know that Full Metal Jacket. It's just that one67600:33:36.720 --> 00:33:38.640



always got me in the beginning, you know, with the67700:33:38.720 --> 00:33:40.759



boot camp part of it.67800:33:41.000 --> 00:33:42.880



I mean, I'm a huge fan of Stanley Kubrick as well.67900:33:43.039 --> 00:33:46.759



So it's it's similar to Apoculst now in that it's68000:33:47.000 --> 00:33:48.920



just giving you an impression. I felt there was a68100:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.720



lot more irony. Yeah, yeah, like like the peace button,68200:33:51.759 --> 00:33:53.200



but he had born to kill on his helmet but68300:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.599



a piece button. And the officer walks up to him68400:33:55.599 --> 00:33:57.119



and he's like, you better get your head or your68500:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.799



butt wire together. Oh, I will take a giant you68600:34:00.079 --> 00:34:02.160



what on you? Have you seen The Deer Hunter by68700:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.440



Michael Camino. Yeah, that's another good one that you could68800:34:04.640 --> 00:34:06.559



look at and compare. It's been a while since i've68900:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.400



seen it. That one, that's a rough watch.69000:34:08.599 --> 00:34:09.920



I've not seen it, but I've heard.69100:34:10.360 --> 00:34:14.159



How do you express and how do you make your69200:34:14.239 --> 00:34:19.320



audience feel the anxiety? And it's done brilliantly through a69300:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.159



game of Russian roulette, as each time they put the69400:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.119



gun to the head to characters you care about and69500:34:25.199 --> 00:34:27.519



they pull a trigger and he goes click.69600:34:27.760 --> 00:34:30.719



I had to close my eyes. I was that stressed69700:34:31.039 --> 00:34:33.639



watching this film. It's also a great film for showing69800:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.360



the men what they were like before the war and69900:34:36.440 --> 00:34:38.320



then showed what the war did to them. And the70000:34:38.440 --> 00:34:41.119



one guy who had the most promise in civilian life,70100:34:41.320 --> 00:34:42.719



he was the one that was least meant for the70200:34:42.800 --> 00:34:44.559



war and he's probably the one that had the worst70300:34:44.599 --> 00:34:45.239



fate at the end.70400:34:45.360 --> 00:34:45.559



Yeah.70500:34:46.239 --> 00:34:50.639



Another movie that you may not consider is Rambo's First70600:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.199



Blood and the n monologue where they had to call70700:34:54.280 --> 00:34:56.360



his old colonel in and the Karl walks up to him.70800:34:56.360 --> 00:34:59.840



He's like it's over, Johnny, it's over, and Rambo is like,70900:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.360



nothing is over. You don't just turn it off. It71000:35:02.480 --> 00:35:04.639



wasn't my war. You asked me. I didn't ask you,71100:35:04.880 --> 00:35:06.679



and I did what I had to do to win,71200:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.280



and somebody wouldn't let us win. So this kind of71300:35:09.320 --> 00:35:11.800



goes back to that theme where Kurtz is talking about,71400:35:12.039 --> 00:35:14.320



we're not doing what's necessary to win this war, so71500:35:14.360 --> 00:35:15.599



if we're going to win it, we should win it71600:35:15.679 --> 00:35:17.280



and not do this half in, half out kind of71700:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.880



thing that they were doing. I think kill Gore's a71800:35:18.880 --> 00:35:20.519



good representation of that if you think about it. He's71900:35:20.559 --> 00:35:23.000



like half foot in, half out, not fully committing to72000:35:23.079 --> 00:35:26.360



the war. Where's Kurtz and Willard? I guess will theer's72100:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.639



more of an exploration. He's exploring all sides where he's72200:35:29.679 --> 00:35:32.159



like the audience's eyes. One thing that I just realized72300:35:32.159 --> 00:35:35.239



that we didn't even really talk about directly. I was72400:35:35.239 --> 00:35:37.639



the right of the Valkri scene with the music and72500:35:37.719 --> 00:35:39.760



the theme. How could we not talk about that? And72600:35:40.480 --> 00:35:42.599



how they're coming in with the helicopters. When you first72700:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.360



see that, it's almost adrenaline inducing, like you're just like, oh,72800:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.039



here it comes. And I was his theme with this.72900:35:48.199 --> 00:35:50.400



It's like saying that the Americans always want to put73000:35:50.440 --> 00:35:51.760



on a big show. Wherever they go, they put on73100:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.519



a big show. And that's what kill Gore's doing. It's73200:35:54.519 --> 00:35:57.480



also have his historical precedents and that see I actually73300:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.599



did things like that that stood out to me too, and.73400:35:59.639 --> 00:36:03.000



He said, turn it up loud. It terrifies them or73500:36:03.639 --> 00:36:05.599



it scares yeah.73600:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.199



And you can see that because where does it start.73700:36:08.239 --> 00:36:08.880



It starts off.73800:36:09.119 --> 00:36:10.639



You know, they're coming in low, they're coming out of73900:36:10.679 --> 00:36:13.400



the sun right and then we cut to the village74000:36:13.840 --> 00:36:16.519



and we don't see the VC encampment on the beach.74100:36:16.760 --> 00:36:19.199



What we see as a school and the little children74200:36:19.280 --> 00:36:20.400



and they're lining them up and.74300:36:20.440 --> 00:36:25.519



They're peaceful village, moving them du It's also part of74400:36:25.519 --> 00:36:27.679



the class of the culture because you're seeing the Vimanese culture.74500:36:27.679 --> 00:36:29.920



They're just having a peaceful afternoon and then here come74600:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.159



the Americans and then here they come, and we're just74700:36:34.199 --> 00:36:35.000



blowing everything up.74800:36:35.480 --> 00:36:39.639



It's such an amazing scene and I cannot imagine what74900:36:39.800 --> 00:36:42.559



it took to film something like that. But it is75000:36:42.760 --> 00:36:47.320



definitely the raw, raw moment of the film, because everything75100:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.960



after that just goes deeper and deeper and deeper until75200:36:50.000 --> 00:36:51.079



you're at they do Long Bridge.75300:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.639



Yeah, Kilgary, he just has a very straightforward view of75400:36:54.719 --> 00:36:56.960



the war. He's not complex, he's not trying to dive deep.75500:36:57.079 --> 00:36:59.400



These people are savages, you know, That's what he says75600:36:59.559 --> 00:37:01.599



one scene when the woman throws a grenade in the75700:37:01.599 --> 00:37:04.360



helicopter and blows the helicopter up, and he calls them savages.75800:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.000



But then he doesn't see the irony even though he75900:37:08.119 --> 00:37:11.280



just blew apart the whole village. Yeah, he's doing the76000:37:11.320 --> 00:37:14.360



same thing. It's just such an amazing film. I loved76100:37:14.639 --> 00:37:18.239



the sacrifice of the water buffalo at the end. Oh yeah,76200:37:19.039 --> 00:37:22.639



that's a tough scene to see. There's two stories that76300:37:22.719 --> 00:37:26.000



are going on at the same time, and the scene76400:37:26.079 --> 00:37:31.280



starts with Kurtz backlit in the temple doorway in the76500:37:31.360 --> 00:37:35.719



water buffalo going down the steps. Meanwhile, Willard is preparing76600:37:36.400 --> 00:37:40.679



to kill Kurtz. There's symmetry between the sacrifice of the76700:37:40.760 --> 00:37:45.199



buffalo and his attack on Kurtz. When Willard comes out76800:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.559



his face is half in shadow, and all of Kurtz's76900:37:48.639 --> 00:37:52.559



followers they kneel and they bow, and I think they're77000:37:52.599 --> 00:37:56.960



recognizing what has happened. You're now our god.77100:37:57.639 --> 00:38:01.280



Willard walks in between them and he grabbed Lance. As77200:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.199



the PBR is pulling away, you see superimposed Willard's face77300:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.480



still in half shadow, along with the statue of the god.77400:38:10.280 --> 00:38:12.960



And then Willard's face comes out of shadow and the77500:38:13.039 --> 00:38:13.559



film ends.77600:38:14.360 --> 00:38:17.239



I mean, yeah, everything you said is exactly hygree.77700:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.960



And the theatrical cut as it's fading out and see77800:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.480



the helicopters coming back, and people interpreted the ending of77900:38:25.559 --> 00:38:28.400



the film was Willard called in the air strike and78000:38:28.519 --> 00:38:32.280



that wasn't Coppola's intention at all. When this film was78100:38:32.360 --> 00:38:35.760



shown in seventy millimeter, there was neither credits at the78200:38:35.800 --> 00:38:37.639



beginning or credits at the end. It just went into78300:38:37.679 --> 00:38:38.079



the movie.78400:38:38.360 --> 00:38:40.039



Wow, it's kind of cool. I didn't know it.78500:38:41.000 --> 00:38:42.559



So are we ready to ask a question?78600:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.559



Does Apocalypse Now roof the decades or did it lose78700:38:46.599 --> 00:38:47.039



its beat?78800:38:48.519 --> 00:38:52.320



Hopping in the way back machine and pulling back a years.78900:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.079



Dude, William, what did you think? I think it definitely79000:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.280



grooves because to me, It's one of the most timeless79100:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.480



masterpiece that I've ever seen. We could watch it two79200:39:02.559 --> 00:39:06.199



hundred years from now and it will still I guess resonate.79300:39:06.679 --> 00:39:08.960



I believe that he achieved his goal of telling a79400:39:09.000 --> 00:39:12.079



truly human story, and that notes what makes it so timeless. Yes,79500:39:12.199 --> 00:39:16.119



I do believe the movie definitely still grooves. It is,79600:39:16.679 --> 00:39:19.760



in my opinion, one of the timeless masterpiece, so it's79700:39:19.920 --> 00:39:20.840



definitely still grooves.79800:39:21.159 --> 00:39:23.519



Aaron Well, I think it grooves. I knew it grew79900:39:23.800 --> 00:39:26.360



because William came and told me how amazing it was.80000:39:27.119 --> 00:39:29.719



But you, having only seen this for the first time,80100:39:30.960 --> 00:39:33.920



I would say, yes, it definitely still grooves because I80200:39:34.000 --> 00:39:35.960



want to see it a few more times now because80300:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.719



I feel like it's one of those movies you have80400:39:37.800 --> 00:39:39.719



to see it more than once because you're going to80500:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.440



get new things from it, and that to me says80600:39:43.480 --> 00:39:45.880



it's a good movie. And I think, like what William said,80700:39:45.920 --> 00:39:49.480



it's timeless and it's like an Impressionist painting. I can80800:39:49.559 --> 00:39:53.400



look at Impressionist art now and those are still grooving too,80900:39:53.599 --> 00:39:57.599



So definitely, if you haven't seen it like me recently,81000:39:58.280 --> 00:39:59.679



do put it on your list to watch.81100:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.239



I think Apocalypse now still lands today. I think that81200:40:03.400 --> 00:40:06.719



this is a film that the younger generation could come81300:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.360



in and watch and pick up what Coppola was trying81400:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.880



to say, because he made a picture about the Vietnam War,81500:40:15.480 --> 00:40:17.559



and I think that the themes and the messages that81600:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.719



it asks the viewers to consider and to deal with,81700:40:21.159 --> 00:40:23.719



I just think it really lasts even today, So I81800:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.519



think it's a very relevant movie for someone to go81900:40:26.679 --> 00:40:29.320



back and watch again. I think this is why this82000:40:29.519 --> 00:40:32.159



is Copola's magnum opus, and I think that's why for82100:40:32.280 --> 00:40:35.440



me it still grooves today. So Will and Aaron, thank82200:40:35.480 --> 00:40:38.400



you guys both for coming on today and talking about82300:40:38.440 --> 00:40:39.559



Apocalypse Now with me.82400:40:39.800 --> 00:40:41.840



Well, thanks for having me on. It's been a lot82500:40:41.840 --> 00:40:42.320



of fun.82600:40:42.400 --> 00:40:46.519



Awesome, and thank you listeners for joining us today. Did82700:40:46.559 --> 00:40:49.119



you see Apocalypse Now? We'd love to hear what you82800:40:49.239 --> 00:40:52.199



think and which version you prefer. You can reach us82900:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.840



at our website, Cinematicflashback dot com, and while you're there,83000:40:56.239 --> 00:40:59.000



be sure to check out our previous episodes, dig into83100:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.480



our blog articles, and hit that subscribe button so you83200:41:01.679 --> 00:41:04.800



never miss an episode. And hey, if you're enjoying the show,83300:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.760



we truly appreciate you sharing it with your friends, but83400:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.159



join us next time as we fire up the Wayback83500:41:10.280 --> 00:41:13.280



Machine and head back to the nineteen seventies to explore83600:41:13.320 --> 00:41:17.679



another unforgettable film from that air and remember, never get83700:41:17.760 --> 00:41:18.320



out of the boat.83800:41:21.440 --> 00:41:25.599



Certain chat, sirs, The only thing that hold this cuts in, Sirs,83900:41:25.679 --> 00:41:26.400



that motlan.84000:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.840



What do you have to say? Goody PC.84100:41:31.599 --> 00:41:36.360



If you want water, you get three paddy watta get84200:41:36.519 --> 00:41:36.760



out of.84300:41:36.760 --> 00:41:40.760



Here, give me that, give me that? Can't you don't84400:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.559



riv it up? Yes it.84500:41:47.159 --> 00:41:47.239



Up?84600:41:47.800 --> 00:41:51.480



Why would you pick my cat teat any day? Colonel?84700:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.159



I think one of those sellers, Lance Johnson The Surfer84800:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.360



where John every84900:41:57.480 --> 00:42:03.199



Twist maadic flashback and the show begin