Aug. 12, 2026

Orca (1977): A Revenge Western at Sea

Orca (1977): A Revenge Western at Sea
Orca (1977): A Revenge Western at Sea
Cinematic Flashback
Orca (1977): A Revenge Western at Sea
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Season 2

For decades, Orca (1977) has lived in the shadow of Jaws, often dismissed as just another killer-animal cash-in. But does that reputation tell the whole story?

In this episode of Cinematic Flashback, Chuck and Matt dive beneath the surface of Michael Anderson's cult classic to discover a film that may be more ambitious than its reputation suggests. Starring Richard Harris, Charlotte Rampling, Will Sampson, and featuring the screen debut of Bo Derek, Orca transforms a familiar creature-feature premise into a tragic tale of grief, guilt, and revenge.

We'll explore the surprising story behind the film's production, from producer Dino De Laurentiis' late-night search for "something more formidable than a great white shark" to the involvement of acclaimed writers Luciano Vincenzoni and Robert Towne, along with an unforgettable score by Ennio Morricone. Along the way, we discuss the film's remarkable cast, its connections to spaghetti westerns, its place in the wave of post-Jaws cinema, and whether there's more lurking beneath the surface than audiences have given it credit for.

Was Orca simply a shameless imitation... or a surprisingly thoughtful revenge story disguised as a monster movie?

Hop into the Wayback Machine with us as we revisit one of the most fascinating—and misunderstood—films of the 1970s.
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Show NotesFeatured Film

  • Orca (1977)
Films Discussed
  • Jaws (1975) – The blockbuster that inspired the wave of "Jawsploitation" films.
  • The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) – Luciano Vincenzoni's classic collaboration with Sergio Leone.
  • For a Few Dollars More (1965) – Another acclaimed Vincenzoni/Leone western discussed during the production history.
  • Logan's Run (1976) – Director Michael Anderson's previous science fiction classic.
  • The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976) – A comparison point for Orca's revenge narrative.
  • One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975) – Will Sampson's breakout film role.
People Discussed
  • Michael Anderson (Director)
  • Dino De Laurentiis (Producer)
  • Luciano Vincenzoni (Screenwriter)
  • Sergio Donati (Screenwriter)
  • Robert Towne (Uncredited Screenplay Revisions)
  • Ennio Morricone (Composer)
  • Richard Harris
  • Charlotte Rampling
  • Will Sampson
  • Bo Derek
Podcast Spotlight

Chuck and Matt recently joined A Film By with host Jeff Johnson to discuss David Mamet's Heist (2001). Be sure to check out the episode and explore the rest of the podcast for more great conversations about film.

Listener Question

Should films that were made during the 1970s but released in 1980 count as "1970s films"? We'd love to hear your thoughts!

Next Episode

Join us in two weeks as we continue our Jawsploitation theme with Piranha (1978). We'll explore how Joe Dante transformed what could have been another Jaws imitation into a clever, satirical cult classic.

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WEBVTT

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He never put to her a well by accident, it's

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not your style.

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What can I do? But you can stop looking at

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me as if I'm the crazy one.

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Well, I must say I'm amazed that she swam up

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here against the wind and the tide. She didn't swim

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her mate pushed her.

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INQUI didn't you anchor your boat in here last night?

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I did? Just out there?

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He followed you, He won, He followed you.

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Welcome to the Cinematic Flashback Podcast. Get ready to hop

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into the way back machine as we journey through the wild, bold,

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and unforgettable films of the nineteen seventies. Each episode, we

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break down a classic movie or a forgotten jim, seeing

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how it performed then and now, and wrapping things up

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by asking did a groof of the decades or did

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it lose its beat? I am your host, Chuck Brian,

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and today we are reviewing Michael Anderson's nineteen seventy seventh

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film Orca, starring Richard Harris, Charlotte Rampling, Will Sampson and

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Bo Derek. This is our first film in our Jobsploitation Month,

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where we are looking at two films that are swimming

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in the frenzy that Jaw's left in its wake. Joining

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me is my first mate, Matt. Sergeant Matt, good to

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see you again. How have you been?

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I have been well, and I I captain Er. We're

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ready to set sail. I can't believe that we are

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already in August. The summer is almost over. We're looking

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forward to our fall lineup. But yet we are going

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to take just a little breather to look at some

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films that are I mean to be very honest, or

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are very new to me. Have you seen any of

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these before?

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No?

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I have not, And actually that's not one hundred percent true.

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The closing scene I remember, so it maybe that I

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did see this, but I intentionally or unintentionally forgot about it.

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You know, it's really funny because I have the exact

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same memory of maybe seeing this on TV at some point,

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and I remember the scenes at the end. But yeah,

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you know, we started season two with French connection to

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and we spent some time talking about sequels, you know,

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the movies that come back for a second round after

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a successful first outing. But we're kind of moving into

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something a little bit different with Orca and Piranha. These

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really aren't sequels at all. They're just something completely different.

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Because if Steven Spielberg hadn't released Jaws in seventy five,

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I honestly do not believe that either of these movies

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would have existed.

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I agree with you one hundred percent. Although I haven't

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seen Piranha before, I'm pretty sure that neither of these

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films would have been made, and that's probably a move

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in the right direction.

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Well, you know, it's funny the the level of killer

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animal movies that spawned off. I mean, there's a there's

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a movie called Prophecy about a mutated bear. There's a

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movie about an alligator that lives in the in the

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sewers that you know, I guess somebody flashed an alligator

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when they were a kid.

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Yeah, hilarious.

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And then there's let's see There's a Swarm, which kind

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of goes into the disaster movie. So it takes this

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killer animal and elevates it to a you know, a

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movie like Towering Inferno.

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Yeah.

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I think this this is a is a response to

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any kind of film that kind of preys on our

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fears as humans, as someone outside their element and being

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pursued maybe no longer the hunter, but the hunted. And

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I think that's the theme that you're seeing on a

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lot of these, And yeah, they're great kind of movies

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to go to and check out for an hour and

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a half or two hours and kind of see the

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action in what's going on. Definitely the candy corn of

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the candy world.

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Yeah, well, these are kind of I mean, I call

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it jawsploitation.

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I think it's perfect name, it's absolutely perfect.

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And last last time, I was talking about truck'sploitation, right,

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because you had some good truck movies and then all

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of a sudden it's like everybody's making less than top shelf.

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Yeah. I think that's one hundred percent true. You've heard

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it all before, you know, when someone says this is

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Jaws meets fresh water fishing, you know, this is Jaws

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but with a killer whale. You know, and immediately they

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throw money at it, because that's the way Hollywood does. Unfortunately,

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thousands of fabulous news stories out there. Again, we'll touch

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on my standard theme of why are you making sequels

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when there's so much great new material out there? Why

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are you making cheap copies? When? Yeah, and honestly, in

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this film, when we'll talk about it as we go forward,

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I'm going to point out some places where this could

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have been a great movie. Right, it could have been

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a fabulously good movie. And I'll point out where I

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think it went wrong. It was this close, right, I

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think it's a bit close, a little bit farther at

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this point, Matt's arms are well, Leigh. I started off

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with a little finger of like an inch, you know,

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and then his arms went really wide. But again, and

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we will share with us as we go forward. In

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this podcast, it's talking about there are highlights in this film.

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Some of them are sure maybe unintentional hilarity, and some

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of them are places where the story is kind of interesting.

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So we'll talk about it as we go forward.

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Sure, sure, Matt, who is talking to us this week?

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So we got this question from Spotify from listener The

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Eternal seventy three and I quote, Hi, guys, gret episode,

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is there a chance you could cover Friedkin's Cruising? Cheers?

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End quote. Technically Cruising is a nineteen eighty film, but

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it was filmed in the late seventies, So we'll throw

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it out to our listeners. Should movies filmed in the

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seventies but released in nineteen to eighty count or should

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we stick strictly to release dates. Let us know what

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you think on that question, and we welcomed that input.

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Matt. Last month, you and I did something kind of fun.

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We went on a podcast and we talked about a

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movie we did.

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It was fun. We were invited to talk about a

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movie called Heist. It was really a lot of fun

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speaking with Jeff and and I hope everybody reaches out

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to download that episode in other episodes of a Film

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by podcast.

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Just to be fair, I reached out to Jeff and

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asked him if he might consider doing I Have the Needle,

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starring our friend Donald Sutherland. Like he's our friend at

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this point, we're just fanboys. But it's also directed by

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Richard Markwand who directed Return of the Jedi. So I

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pitched that to him and let's keep our fingers crossed

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that we might get to talk about that film. Finally.

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Well, I think we pitched it to him that he

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should do that and he should then have us back.

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Yes, because it's.

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One of the films I really wanted a review. I

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love that film.

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In fact, he could have you on there without me. No, No,

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we're a team. I think it would be an entertaining episode.

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I would love to hear.

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That I have not watched it since literally when I

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saw it, so I have not rewatched it. The film

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it's based on the book by Ken Follen. So anyway,

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how did this movie happen? Chuck?

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You know, Matt. When I started doing the hat of

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this movie section, I was always worried, at what point

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will I find nothing about how a film happened? But

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Orca did not disappoint And it really starts this way.

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It starts with getting a phone call in the middle

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of the night, and that usually is not a good thing.

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So Luciano Vincenzoni was asleep when his phone rang, and

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on the other end was his friend and producer Dino

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de Laurentis. He was one of the biggest producers in

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the business over a career that lasted more than sixty years.

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He produced everything from Fellini classics like Lestrata all the

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way to Hollywood films like Serpaco, King Kong, Flash, Gordon Conan,

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The Barbarian, the nineteen eighty four Dune in Blue Velvet.

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Dino wanted his own blockbuster creature movie, but instead of

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calling a horror writer, he called Luciano Vincenzoni. Now, I'm

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going to guarantee that most people will not recognize that

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name unless they happen to be fans of spaghetti western films,

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because venon Zoni helped write two of Sergio Leone's greatest

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spaghetti western films for a few dollars more and The Good,

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the Bad, and the Ugly. And that's a really odd

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combination to start a story about a movie about a

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killer whale. So back to that phone call. According to

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venein Zoni, Dino's first question was super simple. He just says,

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you know, have you seen Jaws? And you know when

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vengeen Zonie wipes the sleep out of his eyes. He

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says yes, and Dino says, good. Now find me a

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sea creature that's more formidable than a great white shark. Okay,

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great ventionen Zoni's a writer, he's not a marine biologist,

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so he calls his brother, who's also not a marine

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biologist but a zoologist, and his brother suggested to him

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the killer Well. So vention Zoni is working with fellow

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screenwriter Sergio Donata. Benion Zoni developed the story that would

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become Orca. This project starts to attract some serious talent.

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Novelist Arthur Herzog, who was famous for writing pulp science

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fiction novels, took an early version of the screenplay and

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turned it into a novel that ultimately did not resemble

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the final product, and this is the exact same thing

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that happened with Jows two novelization. Then Robert Town, who

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was fresh off of his Oscar win for Chinatown, was

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brought in to polish the screenplay for English speaking audiences,

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and his work on the film went uncredited. And it

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is my opinion that it is Town's screenplay changes that

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attracted a lot of the talent that signed on for

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this film. You have Michael Anderson, who came aboard to

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direct after the success of Logan's Run. Richard Harris and

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Charlotte Rampling signed on to star, and composer Enio Moore

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Kone was brought on to write the music and more.

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Coney also wrote the scores for The Good, the Bad,

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and the Ugly, as well as for a Few Dollars More,

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as well as many many more. So that's a pretty

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remarkable lineup for what I always remembered as the Killer

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Whale version of Jaws. I think all of that really

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surprised me once I got into it. But maybe that's

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exactly why Orca feels a little bit different from the

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wave of killer animal movies that followed Jaws. Dino de

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Laurentis set out to make another Jaws, but instead he

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made Orca, and that is how this film happened.

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That's crazy, and I love the callback to the good,

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the bad, and the ugly and for a few dollars more.

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Two of my favorite old spaghetti westerns. And I think

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I've mentioned on the podcast before my brother a yeahge

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fan of spaghetti westerns, so we watched them all. I

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love those You make great points, and it is interesting.

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It is different than the Jaws. I think the difference

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is the creature is very intelligent and portrayed so in

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the film, and I think that brings a different kind

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of fear into the film than with Jaws. Jaws, you know,

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the shark is just a killing machine, perfectly designed to

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do one thing, eat and make more white sharks, right,

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That's literally all it does, so brainless essentially, and in

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this movie we really see the creature as a character

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with what is maybe anthropomorphized feelings and stuff like that.

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But that's how they're portraying it in it, and to

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some extent it makes it more scary because this thing

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is is incredibly powerful, you know, and we see you

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during the film that you know that some of it

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is attributed to blind rage.

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It's doing it on purpose, right, Yeah, Well, we are

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ready to dive into the production and casting details of

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or but we need to step away for a quick

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break and we will be right back.

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It's thematic sash back the shore. It's a cinematic slashback

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the shot.

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The ancient Romans called him Orca, or Kindness Latin or

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bringer of death. He is, without challenge, the most powerful

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animal on the globe, the killer will. Orca has forty

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eight teeth set in two impressive rows. In some respects,

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the orca's intelligence may be even superior to man's. They

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remain loyal to one mate for life. As parents, they

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are exemplary better than many human beings, and like human beings,

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they have a profound instinct for vengeance. An innocent creature

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is destroyed by an act of human cruelty, and the

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ultimate battle of man against begins.

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Dino de la Reno's presents ARCA welcome back.

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Let's get into the production details and talk about this cast.

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Orca was released on July twenty second, nineteen seventy seven,

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and distributed by Paramount Pictures. The film was produced by

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Famous Film's Production and was international co production between the

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United States, the United Kingdom, and Italy. Michael Anderson directed

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the film. The screenplay was written by Luciano Vincenzoni and

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Sergio Donata and based on the story that they developed

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for the project. The movie was photographed by Ted Moore,

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whose credits include James Bond, Classics, Doctor No From Russia

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with Love and Goldfinger. Editing duties were handled by John Bloom,

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Marion Rothman, and Ralph Winters. Music was provided by Enio Marcone.

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The production budget has been reported between six and seven

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and a half million dollars, and the film earned approximately

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fourteen point seven million dollars at the box office, which

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does not quite surpass the two and a half times,

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so this film officially did not make money. Critics were

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understandably brutal. Today, the film sits at ten percent on

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Rotten Tomatoes, while audiences are only slightly kinder at thirty

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three percent. So while Orca never becomes the next Jaws,

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it has developed a loyal cult following over the years. Matt,

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who do we have starring in this film? Well, of course,

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the orca, which is played by a variety of Wales,

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filmed in the wild, and I believe at Sea World.

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And if you are an institute observer and know anything

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about orca's in captivity, will notice that the orcas switch out. Yes,

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they do a nice job of trying to keep in

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tune with the orca of the one we care about

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by using a nice little chunk out of his dorsal

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fin that was removed when things were happening, So that

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that's kind of cool. You get to see real orca

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films in the wild, and there's a few shots of

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a family group of orcas hunting and they're beautiful, absolutely

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beautiful animals. So can't get can't get enough of seeing

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the orcas. They are an amazing animal. I actually saw.

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Them in the wild when I was up on the

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Aleutian Islands. I didn't know that. Yeah, And the island

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that we were on, the orcas would chase sea lions

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up onto the beach. We were there when that happened.

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I mean it's rough, man, it's rough. They chase them

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up onto the shore and the orcas themselves go shooting up.

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I think there's a there's actually a famous film of

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that of that actually happening, but we got to see

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a very small sort of vignette of that when we

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were on the island.

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It struck me that if anybody else other than Steven

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Spielberg would have directed Jaws, I think this is the

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same way that somebody else would have approached making Jaws,

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because I'm sure that just filming creatures in the natural

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wild and then superimposing maybe with either an animatronic shark

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that's less articulate, followed by dorsal fins that are being

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dragged around. I think they would have used similar techniques

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to what Anderson does in this film. Well, and I

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think that was Steven Spielberg's genius. Is that our imagination

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is what's driving Bielberg's genius and the inability for a

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mechanical shark to actually operate within salt water go figure.

290
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Yeah, but happenstance. It works out better because we do

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see in the film of the Orca. We definitely see

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him in what appears to be a tank. But you

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have to suspend a little disbelief I understand that you

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do see some wild shots, but then in the movie

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there's some things that happened that look just like the

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tricks that activity do at Sea World. Just they're not

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getting a ball or a piece of fish, they're getting

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something else.

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I always wonder what the audience of nineteen seventy seven

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if their brains just you know, maybe recognized it, but

301
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it wasn't as obvious. But to me, of course maybe

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it was.

303
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No.

304
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I think you're right. Remember, our experience up until that

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point informs what we're seeing. So when we're seeing it's like, yeah,

306
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of course you're going to see a little edge of

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the captivity pool or something and you just ignore it.

308
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Yeah.

309
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Right, nowadays we're just with CGI. It's so perfect. Just

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to talk about Star Wars real quick. That was one

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of the shocking things about Star Wars is up to

312
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that point, when you had a spaceship, you could almost

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see the hand holding it in front of a black screen, right,

314
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a little wire.

315
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Yeah.

316
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Yeah, Well then they used wires in Star Wars, but

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the way they used the film, the angles and showing

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the size, like even that opening scene that blows you

319
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aways where the star destroke comes over your head. Shocking.

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They've never seen anything like it.

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We talked about this in our Logan's Run episode ironically,

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also directed by Michael Anderson, that it was like we

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came out, was like, I can't believe that this movie

324
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opens within the same time frame that we get Star Wars.

325
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It's just such an amazing difference between the old school

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and the new way of doing it. Now. Maybe for

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Orca it was much more of a financial reason.

328
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Well, and I think we can give it some grace.

329
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I mean, come on, yeah, looking at this in twenty

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twenty six and it was filmed in nineteen.

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That's amazing in and of itself. So let's move on

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to our next human star, Oh my god, which is

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Richard Harris. He plays cap. What is Richard Harris doing

334
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in this film? Well, he's doing everything it can to

335
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keep it afloat, let's put it that way. Fair play,

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fair play.

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So he's a fisherman who attempts to capture the killer

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whale that sets the film's tragic events in motion. Some

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other facts about Richard Harris. I mean everybody's probably heard

340
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of him. He was born in Limerick, Ireland in nineteen thirty.

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I did not know that he was an Irish actor

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because I know him from his film where he played

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Dumbledore in two of the Harry Potter films, and I

344
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always thought he was British, right.

345
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He earned his first Academy Award nomination for the Sporting

346
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Life in nineteen sixty three. He starred in acclaim films

347
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including Camelot, A Man Called Horse That's where I remember

348
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him most for as A Man Called Horse a great movie,

349
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and The Molly Maguires Before Orca. He's known for portraying charismatic,

350
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flawed men with tremendous emotional depth. Oh wow, that describes

351
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.400
no one. Yeah, yeah, I think it was an interesting

352
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choice to have him. He's a great actor. I do

353
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have to say it's almost fuermulaic to hire an Irish

354
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actor with an accent to play this role, because it

355
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.640
sort of seems a lot like Quint. Although Quinn was

356
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trying to play somebody from New England, Riley didn't appear

357
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to be from New England. I through the whole movie

358
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I thought he was from I thought he was from Europe,

359
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probably from Ireland. But then he tells the story of

360
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the Indianapolis and I'm like, Okay, I guess he's pretending to.

361
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:23.200
Be from New England. Well, we've talked about Robert Shaw

362
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.079
multiple times. We've covered multiple Robert Shaw films. Yeah, and

363
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I think every time we always say, Okay, which accent

364
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.119
will he have today? From how what point? And then

365
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at what point won't become irish?

366
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Which is great. Not to say he's not a great actor.

367
00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.079
He's a great actor. Absolutely not. He's fantastic. So Charlotte

368
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:46.680
Rampling plays Rachel, who is a marine biologist who spent

369
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her years studying killer wales, and throughout the films she

370
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serves as our guide and explaining a lot of the

371
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:58.519
narrative dumping of the orca behavior and at the same

372
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time she's warning Nolan that he has underestimated the intelligence

373
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and emotional capacity of the animal. Now I recognized Charlotte

374
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Rampling from her movie or her appearance in the nineteen

375
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seventy four John Borman classic Czardas, where she starred opposite

376
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of Sean Connery playing Consuela.

377
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She plays almost a very similar character. She was born

378
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in England, obviously, and she became one of Europe's most

379
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acclaimed actresses during the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies. She's

380
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known for taking intelligently psychologically complex roles such as the

381
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night Porter and Farewell, My Lovely, and her career continues

382
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to span more than six decades, earning her Academy Award

383
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.680
in Emmy nominations later in life. So she is still working.

384
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.319
Well. I one hundred percent recognized her, you know, I

385
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recognized her in her voice, but I could not place

386
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:01.759
but I had seen her in and I went and

387
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looked it up. And it's because she's been in a

388
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.559
lot of things, so it's one of those familiar actresses.

389
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I think her natural kind of snootiness, maybe Mahse in

390
00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:16.440
this film is actually appropriate because she's a marine biologist,

391
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and she knows a lot about orcas, and it seems

392
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like nobody really knows, even in this fishing village, anything

393
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about them, except for maybe some of the Native Americans

394
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:30.279
who have more about them. So she delivers a solid performance.

395
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.759
She's in the whole film, obviously, and she also provides

396
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sort of that narrative backdrop. And I think maybe I

397
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:39.799
was wondering about it because we all seem to, at

398
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:43.799
least I know a lot about killer whales orcas, and

399
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:46.920
I think maybe it's this film that caused that, because

400
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.799
I don't think a lot of people knew about them

401
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.559
before this film. Certainly people had seen them in Sea

402
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:54.400
World and stuff like that, but I mean, I know

403
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:59.039
it wasn't in the common zeitgeist like it is today.

404
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.680
You know, people know about what a killer whale is,

405
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.880
an orca, how they hunt, how they are pen packs,

406
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:07.880
and how amazing they are. But I don't think that

407
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:09.880
was the case. So it was really important to have

408
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:11.119
that narrative backdrop.

409
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:13.119
I think there's been a lot of I guess from

410
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:16.160
an ecological standpoint, I think there's been a lot more

411
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.440
noticed in the last ten years on holding a lot

412
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.599
of these animals in captivity and whether or not that's

413
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.720
a good idea or not. There's actually another movie that

414
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:27.759
came out much later that described some of the practices.

415
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.400
It's a good documentary, definitely worth the time to take

416
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.519
a look at. But obviously here in the nineteen seventies,

417
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:39.480
we're not there yet. You mentioned the Mick mack Hunter

418
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:44.559
played by Will Sampson. His name is Jacob Umelac, and

419
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:49.640
he understands the orcas more through years of experience rather

420
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:54.880
than scientific study. Again, like Rachel, Will Sampson He is

421
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.880
a member of the Creek Nation from Oklahoma. He made

422
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.920
his acting debut as Chief Bromdon in One Flew Over

423
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:05.480
the Cuckoo's Nets, which we covered about a year ago.

424
00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.759
He stood at six foot seven. He was pretty big guy.

425
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:09.160
I mean.

426
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He was also known for conveying emotion with very little dialogue.

427
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:16.519
He went in to appear in The White Buffalo, The Outlawed,

428
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:20.119
Josie Wales, and Poltergeist to the Other Side, and he

429
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.519
is widely regarded as one of the most influential Native

430
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:27.519
American actors of the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties.

431
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:31.480
One hundred percent agree. I recognized him immediately from One

432
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:34.640
Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. He's great, and then I

433
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:38.559
also remembered it from The Outlaw Josie Wales, where he also, yes,

434
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:42.920
plays a really interesting and I mean at that time's

435
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:46.720
very funny character. Both great performances.

436
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:47.440
I am.

437
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:49.079
I am a big fan.

438
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:53.559
Again. I have to ask, what is Will Samson, Charlotte Rampling,

439
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:56.359
and Richard Harris doing in this film.

440
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.680
I think they were probably hired with the promise of

441
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.759
making something different. You know, sometimes these things fall short

442
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.799
and they've already turned in their performances. What happens in

443
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.920
the editing room and that sort of thing is not

444
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:11.880
really up to them.

445
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:15.039
This movie does not seem to be the film that

446
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.119
should have attracted this much talent. It's part that was

447
00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:23.440
very surprising to me. Anyways, I personally think that someone

448
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.000
did a great job of quote unquote selling them on

449
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:29.759
the concept of the film, and once they signed onto

450
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.920
the film. I mean, it's very difficult for an actor

451
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.559
to sort of extract themselves once they've made a commitment,

452
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.240
and honestly, I don't think they want to because until

453
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.240
filming is happening, they don't really know.

454
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.160
I mean, they've read, nobody knows. And obviously there was

455
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.759
some churn to the story because there's the first and

456
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:50.559
then the novel comes out of that and then the rewrite.

457
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.119
So I think they were just committed and like anybody,

458
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:55.400
if they say they're going to do it, they're going

459
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:57.480
to do it. And also, I mean there's a payday

460
00:26:57.519 --> 00:26:59.559
associated with it. I'll bet you that even if they

461
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.960
spent thirteen million was it thirteen million bucks.

462
00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:04.440
Something like that or something like that, and they made

463
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.079
it made about fourteen so it barely broke even, right.

464
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:10.400
So, but I'm just saying that the cost to make

465
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:13.119
the film is this partly the salaries of the people

466
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.839
that are yeah, the actor, so maybe there was some

467
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.000
money to be made. I don't know sure sure. Our

468
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.400
next actor is kind of the smaller part. It's Peter

469
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:25.039
Houghton and he plays Paul, the young crewman aboard Nolan's

470
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:28.039
boat who finds himself caught up in the increasingly dangerous

471
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:31.119
hunt for the killer whale. He built his career as

472
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:36.200
with guest appearances on television series including The Waltons, Mannix,

473
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:39.599
The Mod Squad, and Marcus Welby NB. I actually remember

474
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.759
him on The Waltons. I recognize his face and it's

475
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.079
from I used to watch The Waltons All the Love

476
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:48.240
the Waltons Show. Orcus was one of his few major

477
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:52.240
studio film roles, later start as Steven Strange in the

478
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:57.759
nineteen seventy eight television movie Doctor Strange, Marvel's first live

479
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.119
action adaptation of the care.

480
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.160
I know you probably remembered The Incredible Hulk Show with

481
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:09.240
Bill Bixby and Luf Farigno. Yeah, obviously, now everybody probably

482
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.920
knows Doctor Strange from the Marvel cinematic universe, but there

483
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:16.160
was a time when they were really trying to spring

484
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:19.880
off of the popularity of the Incredible Hulk with other

485
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.960
Marvel characters.

486
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.839
I'll be honest with you, I was never a comics,

487
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:27.359
you know, a graphic novel person at all. Yeah, so

488
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.160
a lot of that stuff was if you're in that

489
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.720
world of graphic novels and comic books and stuff like that,

490
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.400
this was second nature. As soon as somebody said Doctor

491
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.000
Strange or Steven Strange, you kind of knew the backstory.

492
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.960
I'll be honest with you, I knew nothing about doctor

493
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:45.200
Strange until he appeared in the major motion film, which

494
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.799
was his origin story. I knew nothing about it. I

495
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:51.000
didn't even know what he was. You know, like everybody

496
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.960
knows what Superman is, you know what Batman is and

497
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:57.799
Spider Man. I had no idea whose Strange was.

498
00:28:57.880 --> 00:28:58.039
Now.

499
00:28:58.039 --> 00:28:59.960
I love that character, and I think it was played

500
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.480
great in the movies. Amazing, It's really fun. But this

501
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:06.680
is the problem with someone who wasn't into graphic novels

502
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:07.599
and that kind of lure.

503
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.359
Anyway, back to this film, I'm guessing that we could

504
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.640
go on the YouTube and we could probably find the

505
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:17.160
Doctor Strange movie. But the next actress who is in

506
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.400
this film was Bo Derek and she plays Annie, who

507
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.160
is a crew member of board Nolan's boat. This was

508
00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:28.440
just two years before she became an international star with

509
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:34.039
Blake Edwards romantic comedy Ten in nineteen seventy nine, launching

510
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:39.640
many many bad decisions at local hair salons at that time.

511
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.799
Her iconic beach running scene in ten made her one

512
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:48.000
of the biggest pop cultural sensations of the late seventies.

513
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:52.359
Yeah, the fair faucet poster and Bo Derek ten poster

514
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:57.079
was on every teenage boys wall, not mine, but everybody had,

515
00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:59.960
and it was pretty fantastic. And it's cool to see

516
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.440
in this film because she's honestly, she's a little miscast.

517
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:06.839
I mean, anybody who would work on a boat obstensively,

518
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:09.799
it's hard work. They're gonna be like kind of hard

519
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:14.559
boiled and grizzled. She's still very beautiful and obviously the

520
00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:17.200
love interest of one of the other crew members, and

521
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:20.599
just kind of odd that she's there. Okay, well we're

522
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:22.680
gonna leave Bo Derek and we're going to talk about

523
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:28.119
Robert Carodine, who plays Ken. Ken is Rachel's assistant who

524
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:32.039
joins Nolan's final voyage in an effort to track down

525
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:35.200
the rogue orca. He appears at the beginning of the

526
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:39.000
film driving a little Robert Dinghy, then he kind of disappears,

527
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:43.200
and then he appears later on Robert Carodine. We recognize

528
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:45.759
the last name because he is a member of the

529
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:50.279
legendary Carodeine acting family, which includes his father John and

530
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:54.599
brother David and Keith. You may remember we talked about

531
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:59.519
Keith Carodine in the film McCabe and Missus Miller. He

532
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:03.799
was later wildly known as Lewis Skolnik in the Revenge

533
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.880
of the Nerds films. Bringing up the rear is Scott Walker,

534
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:12.000
who plays Al Swain, a local fisherman who becomes the

535
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:16.039
voice of the South Harbor community. Muppet fans may recognize

536
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:20.039
him as Snake Walker, one of Doc Hopper's henchmen in

537
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:24.079
The Muppet Movie nineteen seventy nine. We're going to cover

538
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:28.000
that movie. It's a seventies movie. Can I ask you

539
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:29.039
a question? Sure?

540
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:31.680
Would you want to cover that movie?

541
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:33.839
The Muppet Movie. I thought it was hilarious.

542
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.440
I remember, okay, it was fun, okay, okay, I need

543
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.519
to figure out what we're gonna into that would be Oh, well,

544
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.680
we'll figure something out. I mean, the seventies is just

545
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.160
a treasure trove of films that if you seek it,

546
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:49.400
it will come to you.

547
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.160
Wasn't there other puppet movies? Maybe we could do a

548
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.480
puppet movie. One was The Never Ending Story in the seventies.

549
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:56.960
Oh that was the eighties.

550
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:57.480
But what was it?

551
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:02.240
What a fantastic flick? Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. Okay, let's

552
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:05.119
take a look at the back of the box of

553
00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:08.799
this DBD Matt tell us what we're gonna see. Well,

554
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:11.720
this is a little bit of what might be on

555
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:15.200
the back of the box. But let's deliver it like

556
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:20.319
it like it's an intro okay, sleek, intelligent, beautiful and

557
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:24.359
hell bent on revenge. Dino Dan Laurentis and director Michael

558
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:28.599
Anderson joined forces to present the rousing action adventure Tale

559
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:32.519
of Orca the Killer Whale. It's the story of one

560
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.960
powerful being against another, a strong, determined fisherman by the

561
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:41.079
name of Captain Nolan versus an equally determined killer whale.

562
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.319
When the giant whale's pregnant mate is nimed and killed

563
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:48.200
by Nolan, the whale seeks vengeance, smashing boats, attacking sea

564
00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:52.759
coast village and eventually luring his human adversaries into a

565
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:59.039
final confrontation in the marine creature's own arctic turf. Charlotte Rampling,

566
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:03.039
Will Sampson and Bo Derek, in her feature film debut,

567
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.799
also star in the seafaring epic brimming with nail biting

568
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:10.559
suspense and spectacular special effects.

569
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:16.519
Ooh, they are somebody paid the marketing department a lot

570
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:20.359
of money for that. Yeah, they got a good They've

571
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.519
got a great cast. We've got a lot to say

572
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:26.240
about this, but first we're going to pull the rig

573
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:29.279
over for a quick break. Stick around, and we'll be

574
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.039
right back with our thoughts on Orca.

575
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:34.599
Domatic sash back.

576
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:44.799
I'm Amber, I'm Dayton in Disney, Jean, I'm Robert, and

577
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.480
I'm Tim, and we are the host of the Documents

578
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:48.920
seventy seven podcast.

579
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.519
And we're here to give you a little tease of

580
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:53.640
what to expect in twenty twenty six.

581
00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:57.440
In January, we're bringing back on our very popular sci

582
00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:58.240
fi movie Monk.

583
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.759
That's one kind of film from the nine fifth these sixties,

584
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:02.200
seventies and eighties.

585
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:04.720
You all know that we love Disney on this broadcast.

586
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.640
I mean it's literally in my name. So Amber and

587
00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:08.159
I are going to be going to spend some quality

588
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:10.559
time with you looking at their live action films from

589
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:12.239
this fifties, the sixties, and the seventies.

590
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:14.079
I think twenty thousand Leagues.

591
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:15.639
Apple, Dumbling Gang, and so much more.

592
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.079
Now, the year nineteen seventy seven was an important year

593
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.599
for pop culture. We're talking game changing, earth shattering, culture

594
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:26.079
defining moments. So we are doing our longest series ever

595
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:29.280
looking at films and albums from that legendary.

596
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:31.760
Year, docum Base seventy seven, where Broadway references meet the

597
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:33.239
voice of reason and it's.

598
00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:35.440
Healthy for you. We're just a bunch of nerds discussing

599
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:38.239
what we're listening to, watching and reading, and.

600
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.400
As always encouraging you to listen to more music, read

601
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.000
more books, and watch more movies.

602
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.760
I remember, physical media is better than streaming.

603
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:49.239
Docu Bay seventy seven, Your twenty twenty six adventure starts here.

604
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.199
And thematic sash back.

605
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:01.599
Can I help you? You know the men all meet,

606
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:12.199
they talk of you, and they are angry. I understand.

607
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:16.920
They say you're a coward for not to go out

608
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:17.960
and kill this whale.

609
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:24.000
I have my reasons, I believe you why I've seen

610
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:27.599
your face fear, but it is not anything alive.

611
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:29.840
It is of some spirit.

612
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:30.840
I think.

613
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:33.880
I come only to warn you. Perhaps it is best

614
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:35.119
you go hunt this devil.

615
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.559
No matter what your reasons are, if there is any

616
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:41.440
more harm done to this town, are your whale light?

617
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.440
Thank you for the warning. I know what my ancestors

618
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:48.920
would have done. Well.

619
00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:53.400
They have this shaman sow a small skinned whale and

620
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.679
stuffing with the livers of birds. They make pissed water

621
00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:59.880
on it and throw it into the sea with some word.

622
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:05.239
It's all, it's been done right. The monster spirit flies out.

623
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:05.599
Of his mouth.

624
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.280
Welcome back. All right. From here on out, we're going

625
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:11.559
to talk about our thoughts on Orca and might inadvertently

626
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:16.159
give some spoilers. You can rent Orca at the usual places.

627
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:16.639
You know.

628
00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:21.039
I had not seen this film. I don't know how

629
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:24.000
old I was at the time, but I remember opening

630
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:27.239
the newspaper and seeing Orca, and I thought it was

631
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.719
a PG rating, and so I really wanted to go

632
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:32.519
see it, but of course nobody.

633
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:35.559
Was going to take me. I was probably it was

634
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:38.400
the summer of when was it released nineteen seventy seven?

635
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:39.280
Seventy seven?

636
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:40.840
Yeah, so I was ten.

637
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.679
I would turn sixteen that year, so I was fifteen,

638
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.719
so my freshman year. I think it was after my

639
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:48.599
freshman year in high school. Okay, I do not remember

640
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:50.599
going to the film, but I think I saw it

641
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:52.920
on TV. But I don't think I saw the whole thing.

642
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:56.239
I definitely do not remember most of the film except

643
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:56.800
for the end.

644
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:57.400
Yeah.

645
00:36:58.119 --> 00:36:59.559
I thought I was going to laugh more at this

646
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.599
film than what I ultimately did. And I don't want

647
00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:07.920
to narrate the film, but it helps to understand the

648
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:12.639
character of Nolan, and then juxtaposed that to the motives

649
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:17.320
of the whale. So we learn that Nolan's wife and

650
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.880
unborn child were killed in a car accident due to

651
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:26.360
a collision with a drunk driver. And in this movie,

652
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:31.440
Nolan was trying to capture the male orca and bring

653
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:35.920
it into captivity, but his harpoon nicks the dorsal fin

654
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:40.280
of the male orca and hits the female. The female

655
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.760
was pregnant with the pup of the male orca.

656
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:47.079
But you really don't find out about Nolan's past. You

657
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.679
get some flashbacks, but to find out the details later.

658
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:54.960
You suspect there's some tragedy in Nolan's past that may

659
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:56.599
be similar in I don't know.

660
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:58.840
I wonder if that was a storyline brought in by

661
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.239
Robert Town or if May Luciano had that end originally.

662
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:05.280
It seems to me that it was added with flashbacks.

663
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:09.760
I was not expecting that opening, right, Yeah, yeah, I

664
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:11.760
was expecting woman swimming in the water.

665
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:14.480
Well, you may be forgetting in the opening scene, which

666
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:17.039
is pretty hilarious because this is where I had my

667
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:21.519
first laught. So in the beginning they're opening, No, Len's

668
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:25.079
out in his boat. The marine biologist and her assistant

669
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:29.119
are out in a semi rigid inflatable boat and one

670
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:33.519
of them they're diving, and a shark comes along. Duh, Yeah,

671
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:36.239
there's the shark comes along, right, So the shark is

672
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.840
very threatening and you're really scared and you're like, oh

673
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.280
my gosh, this is just like Jaws. This person's going

674
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.000
to be attacked and he's hiding, and like the end

675
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.639
of Jaws is someone's hiding down on the bottom. But

676
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:50.679
then then what comes but in Arca comes and knocks

677
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.400
the living crap out of this Jaws.

678
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:56.719
It knocks the shark out of the water. So it

679
00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:00.519
was so on the nose of we're going to replace Jaws,

680
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:04.079
but something even more formidable, a killer whale.

681
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.760
At that point, I was just like, okay, okay, good golly.

682
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:09.480
So yeah, what about you Chi?

683
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:13.519
Yeah, I'm in the same semi rigid dinghy as you

684
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:17.320
are out there on the water. You approach this movie

685
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.639
with a low bar, right, yeah, But once it gets

686
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:25.320
past this opening sequence of the terrible shark effects, if

687
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:30.599
the movie began to take dramatic turn that I wasn't expecting.

688
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:33.440
And some of the photography in this film by Ted

689
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:36.280
Moore again remember he's the guy who shot a lot

690
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:39.719
of the early James Bond films. It was better shot

691
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.639
than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, I

692
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:46.719
think that's all fair. When we were describing the character

693
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.480
of the whale earlier, we talked about the different ways

694
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.639
in which they filmed live whales, But what about the

695
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:57.000
variety of techniques for the let's just call it the

696
00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:01.119
whale doubles, because I think we have maybe some slight

697
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.400
articulation in some of the stunt whales, if you will,

698
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.639
like where they would use a I don't know if

699
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.840
it was a fully mechanical like they did with Bruce,

700
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.320
or they had someone back behind it. Pushing it up

701
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:15.920
into a boat, and after the female dies, there's a

702
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:19.760
scene where the pod is in a funeral procession with

703
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.199
the male pushing the corpse of.

704
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:23.360
The female along.

705
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.119
You don't see the whales breaching, so I suppose that

706
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:28.719
all of that must have been the prop fins that

707
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:31.480
they were dragging underneath the water, much like they would

708
00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:35.239
do with Bruce's fins and some of the sequences in Jaws. Yeah,

709
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.480
I thought a lot of that was very convincing. I

710
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:40.960
thought the parts that seemed less convincing was when they

711
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:41.840
actually showed.

712
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:43.440
The real whale. Well, the other thing about it is,

713
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:45.360
and I don't know if you guys know, and maybe

714
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:48.440
people in the audience recognize us, but when you watch

715
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:51.599
the film, you'll see some of the whales suffer from

716
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:57.039
their dorsal fin curling over, which is indicative of an

717
00:40:57.199 --> 00:41:01.000
orca in captivity. They don't really know why happens, but

718
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:05.719
it invariably happens in an Orca in captivity. And you'll

719
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:08.320
see in the film, you'll see a bunch of shots

720
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:11.760
with Orca with the thin folded over. When you see

721
00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:14.840
the real live Orca's out in the ocean, they're straight,

722
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.639
straight upright as an arrow, So that was kind of

723
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:20.280
disconcerting for me. So that really was a telltale where

724
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:22.559
I'm like, Okay, this isn't the tank, this isn't the ocean,

725
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:24.760
this isn't tank, this isn't the ocean. So I think

726
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:27.079
they did a good job with the prosthetic or whatever

727
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.519
they used to pretend, you know, when they had to

728
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:32.079
do some stuff. So I think it didn't stand out

729
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:34.480
to me as a problem like when he was ramming

730
00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:37.519
boats and stuff, which is good. It means that you know,

731
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.480
it was real enough and the shot was limited enough

732
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:42.960
that it didn't just stand out like, oh, there's the

733
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:47.840
underwater motor driving it into a balsalwood boat or something.

734
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.760
I want to ask you about the Outlaw Josie Wales.

735
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.639
Think about how that film started. Josie is out in

736
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:56.800
the farm. He's working with his son. He's tilling the

737
00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:59.440
land and his son is helping him to remove rocks,

738
00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:01.880
and then little boy gets called in by his mother.

739
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:06.360
Shortly thereafter, Josie sees smoke arising from the distance in

740
00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:09.199
the direction of his homestead, so he runs over there

741
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.119
and he notices that there are soldiers who have set

742
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.800
his farm on fire and have dragged his wife off

743
00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:20.039
and has killed his little boy. And then the remainder

744
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.360
of the outlaw jose Wales turns into kind of a

745
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:28.920
revenge Western flick. Now, given that this film was written

746
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:31.679
by Luciano, who also wrote The Good, the Bad, and

747
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:34.960
the Ugly and for a few dollars more, is Orca

748
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:37.119
more of a revenge Western?

749
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:38.079
What do you think?

750
00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:38.679
Oh?

751
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:43.440
I think it's absolutely a revenge Western. It's just the

752
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.440
farmer whose family was murdered happens to be a whale.

753
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:52.920
And I think that's a great parallel. I mean literally

754
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.559
exactly what happens with the whale. If you watch the

755
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:57.920
Outlaw Josie Whale, he just goes on He's going to

756
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:01.119
kill everybody, either it's coming after him or had anything

757
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.119
to do with murdering his family. Yeah, and that drives

758
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:06.440
the rest of the entire movie. I think that's pretty

759
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:10.840
similar to what's happening here. The difference is they follow

760
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:13.760
the whale until the whale finally gets them where he

761
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:16.119
wants them so that he can murder them all.

762
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:19.880
Well, not all of them. Somebody has to remain to

763
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:20.719
narrate the movie.

764
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.920
The movie clearly is trying to give us some empathy

765
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.559
for both Yolan and the whale, and I think they

766
00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:29.920
do that through Nolan's tragedy of losing his wife an

767
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:34.159
unborn child and through the whales tragedy of his mate

768
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:38.199
and the unborn child. Right. So there's that parallel and

769
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.280
I think it works because you sort of understand Nolan

770
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:43.559
at first when you meet him. He's kind of brust

771
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:45.440
and he's just trying to make a buck. He's trying

772
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.159
to capture a whale to sell it. He's not really

773
00:43:48.199 --> 00:43:51.000
trying to kill a whale. Then once all this happens,

774
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:54.119
I mean he's horror struck. Yes, he would take it

775
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:57.039
back in an instant. He would undo everything he did.

776
00:43:57.320 --> 00:43:59.039
That is absolutely clear.

777
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:03.000
And that's why his character elevates this movie above my

778
00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:04.679
low bar expectation line.

779
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:04.920
Yeah.

780
00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:07.800
I think that's true, and that is the shining lights

781
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:11.239
of this film is that there is that parallel story

782
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:14.679
of revenge and we're led to believe in the film

783
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:18.000
that they have the capacity for this. Yes, Chuck, if

784
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:21.440
you're good, probably need to step away for a quick break.

785
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:30.400
Flash back and flash back.

786
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:35.920
Well, Matt, I think it's time to ask the question,

787
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:42.400
did Orca win us over or should it have gone kabboom?

788
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:43.880
Where did this one land?

789
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:44.280
For you?

790
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:50.559
So I will say that an all star cast, great

791
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:54.280
writing team, and a follow up rewrite to make it

792
00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:59.239
better and a reasonable budget for special effects all can

793
00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:02.480
be put together and still make a turd of a movie.

794
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:08.199
That it's where we are. Unfortunately for me, this was

795
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:12.760
not a great movie. It's not really a great homage

796
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:17.639
to Jaws. Didn't I didn't find I had the same

797
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:25.480
visceral dread that Jaws gave and the inevitability of innocence

798
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:30.519
being killed right in in Jaws, people are at the beach,

799
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:34.239
there's kids in the inlet, the shark goes in the inlet.

800
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:38.039
Everybody's very stressed out. You know, poor kid gets eaten

801
00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:41.599
out in the surf. All of that, The only time

802
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:44.960
they have any problem is they brought it on themselves.

803
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.599
And then the other time they have problem is they

804
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:52.039
go out on the boat and follow this whale until

805
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.039
the whale turns around and proceeds to tear them up.

806
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.840
So to me, it's like I have absolutely no sympathy.

807
00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:01.280
It's like, turn around, turn the boat around. You're insane

808
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:03.960
to get on a boat with this man. So to me,

809
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:08.079
I just I mean, I literally did not care what

810
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:11.440
happened to anybody except the Breen biologist. I wanted her

811
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.400
to survive, and they did deliver on that. You know, man,

812
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:18.119
I think your your solution for all of life's problems.

813
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:21.880
Whenever a killer truck is chasing you down, or maybe

814
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:25.000
an orca is leading you out to sea, turn around,

815
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:29.239
just turn around. There's a great skit where people are

816
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:33.760
making fun of horror movies and the comedians like, you know,

817
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:37.719
if you walk into the house and the house says

818
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:43.519
get out, you get out, don't stay anyway, it's just

819
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:46.880
too funny. Our typical question is did it groove through

820
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:49.320
the decades or did it lose its beat? I don't.

821
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:52.480
My answer is I don't think this ever had a beat.

822
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:56.320
It's a shame, so I don't think it grooves now.

823
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:00.559
My lament for this film is that it would have

824
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:05.719
been very easy to make it a really great film.

825
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:09.039
That's my personal belief. A few changes in the script

826
00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:14.159
where the meeting with the whale was inadvertent, totally accidental.

827
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.159
Not he was out to try to capture one, but

828
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:21.119
something else happened. He tried to help the whale in

829
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:25.239
the whale misunderstood him trying to help and went on

830
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.840
this vengean streak. After that, everything would have been like, hey,

831
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.000
I was just trying to help. I was trying to

832
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.639
save her as he ran into the prop and now

833
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:35.559
I'm trying to save her. I'm not trying to capture her.

834
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:37.519
But the whale doesn't understand, because the whale is a

835
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:38.239
dumb animal.

836
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.960
But that would have They got the biggest brains, don't

837
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:42.960
you remember what Charlotte Rankling told us, It has the

838
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:44.159
biggest brain of all.

839
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:46.079
I get it. They have a big brain, but they

840
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:47.639
can be mistaken.

841
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:48.159
Okay.

842
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.400
Anyway, to me, that would have made it a better film.

843
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:53.039
You would have been a lot more emotionally involved. The

844
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.199
deaths of the crew members would have been much more

845
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:58.840
impactful if they had been done in the pursuit of

846
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.840
trying to help this way, not capture it. So anyway

847
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:05.000
I say it didn't groove, then it doesn't groove for

848
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:07.679
me now, which is a shame because it could have

849
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:10.039
been a great film. I hear you. I hear you,

850
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:12.840
And I think it's a bit of an oddity because

851
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.840
I mean, both these films that we're looking at, we're

852
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:20.159
not approaching them with high bars of expectations, so my

853
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:23.000
bar was also said very very low. I thought it

854
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:25.960
was going to be just a shameless Jaws knockoff, only

855
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:29.920
with an Orca. But what really surprised me is when

856
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.880
I started researching all of the Italian names that I

857
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:36.199
was seeing in the opening credits. Clearly the people that

858
00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:39.159
were making the film believe that they were making something

859
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:43.199
more than just a creature feature. Having Richard Harris play

860
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.920
Nolan more as a tragic figure rather than an action

861
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:50.519
hero was different than I was expecting. Charlotte Rampling and

862
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:56.119
Will Samson make the Richard Dreyfus character Enio Morcone score

863
00:48:56.519 --> 00:49:00.599
treats the story like a tragedy from beginning to the

864
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.039
very end. What really caught me off guard was how

865
00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:09.119
much that this movie was about the themes of grief, guilt,

866
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:13.159
and revenge. And then by the time Nolan reaches the Arctic,

867
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:16.960
it's really not a movie about a killer whale anymore.

868
00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:20.280
It's about two grieving fathers who have lost their families

869
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:23.079
and they just can't let it go. So No Orca

870
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.480
is not Jaws, but I thought it was better than

871
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:30.360
what its reputation would suggest. I expected to spend this

872
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.280
episode pointing out everything that didn't work, and instead I

873
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:39.400
found myself getting invested in the characters, and surprisingly, I

874
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:43.880
was genuinely moved by its melancholy final moments. So Orca

875
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:46.840
isn't a lost masterpiece, It's not even a hidden gym

876
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:49.760
it But nearly fifty years later people still remember it.

877
00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:52.920
That's a lot more than what can be said for

878
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:57.400
most of the other Jaws imitators that had followed. Matt,

879
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:59.960
do you have any final thoughts before we close up today?

880
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:03.079
I would just say, you know, Chuck, you always do

881
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.960
a great job of sort of giving the film it's due,

882
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:09.440
and I agree with what you're saying. I just still

883
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:13.400
think it was It was a missed opportunity. Should have

884
00:50:13.480 --> 00:50:18.159
been a big kaboom. No, no, I mean a missed opportunity. Actually,

885
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:21.079
I agree with the second half of the film. It's

886
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:24.719
just the setup in the first half, Yeah, doesn't lead

887
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:28.719
you into a really deep caring for the characters. I mean,

888
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.119
I really do not care about any of them, and

889
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.360
I figured, oh, look at all these guys getting on

890
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:36.760
the boat with this knucklehead. They're all gonna die for sure,

891
00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:40.079
undred percent. We know why they are there. Yeah, I

892
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:44.119
mean it was they all had red shirts on on

893
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:45.000
the away team.

894
00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:48.079
Oh my gosh, we made a Star Trek reference and

895
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:52.599
that's you're my friend. So anyway, I think it's worth

896
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:55.199
watching on a rainy day. And if you're a Jaws fan,

897
00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:58.880
it's funny. If you're a Richard Harris fan, you really

898
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:03.239
get a peek into his younger cinematic role, which is

899
00:51:03.639 --> 00:51:06.599
really quite good. All right, Join us in two weeks

900
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:10.760
as we continue our Jaws floydation theme with Joe Dante's

901
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:16.599
Piranha from nineteen seventy eight, starring Bradford Dillman, head their Menzies,

902
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.880
Kevin McCarthy, and returning from White Line Fever, Dick Miller.

903
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:25.920
At first glance, Piranha looks like exactly the kind of

904
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:30.000
movie that only could have existed after Jaws changed Hollywood forever.

905
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:35.360
But as we'll discover, Joe Dante brought a sense of humor, satire,

906
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:38.679
and just enough bite to turn what could have been

907
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:42.559
a simple cash in into something much more rememberable. We'll

908
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:46.440
talk about Roger Corman government experiments gone wrong in an

909
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:49.880
awful lot of Hungry Fish, and until then, stay in

910
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:51.400
the boat, stay out of the water.

911
00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.400
We want to thank you for taking the time to

912
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:57.119
tune in. If you've seen ORCA, reach out and let

913
00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:59.679
us know your thoughts. You can find us on Facebook

914
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:02.920
or leave us a message over at Cinematicflashback dot com.

915
00:52:03.119 --> 00:52:06.159
Don't forget to subscribe so you'd never miss an episode.

916
00:52:06.280 --> 00:52:09.119
If you're enjoying the podcast, please give us a rating

917
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:12.039
and a review. We really appreciate it, and your review

918
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:14.440
just might get read on the air. And if you've

919
00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:17.000
been enjoying the show, tell your friends and family about

920
00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:20.920
what we still proudly believe is the best podcast dedicated

921
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:24.320
to nineteen seventies cinema. Join us next time as we

922
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.000
hot into the wayback machine and head once again to

923
00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:30.760
the nineteen seventies for another classic. Until then, stay out

924
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:32.480
of the water and we'll see you next time.

925
00:52:33.320 --> 00:52:38.400
Flashback to the Tales Untold, where the heroes were gritty,

926
00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:40.400
the buildings were bowled.

927
00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:53.400
From the average test. Flashback o God