March 25, 2026

Hackman & Pacino’s Forgotten Masterpiece - Scarecrow (1973)

Hackman & Pacino’s Forgotten Masterpiece - Scarecrow (1973)
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Hackman & Pacino’s Forgotten Masterpiece - Scarecrow (1973)
Hackman & Pacino’s Forgotten Masterpiece - Scarecrow (1973)
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Season 2

In this episode of the Cinematic Flashback Podcast, we wrap up our 1970s Road Trip series with a deep dive into Scarecrow (1973)—a Cannes Film Festival Grand Prize winner that has become one of the most overlooked and underrated films of the New Hollywood era.

Starring Gene Hackman and Al Pacino at pivotal moments in their careers—between The Poseidon Adventure and The Conversation for Hackman, and The Godfather films for Pacino—Scarecrow is a powerful 1970s road movie that blends realism, character-driven storytelling, and emotional depth.

We explore:
• why Scarecrow (1973) won at Cannes yet faded from mainstream film history
• standout performances from Hackman and Pacino
• the film’s themes of friendship, masculinity, isolation, and survival
• and how it compares to other classic 1970s films

Following two drifters—Max and Lion—on a cross-country journey, Scarecrow is a forgotten gem that rewards deeper reflection and multiple viewings.

Is this underrated 70s classic a hidden masterpiece… or a film that lost its place in cinematic history?

Join us as we revisit Scarecrow (1973) and decide—does it still groove through the decades, or did it lose its beat?


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WEBVTT

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Do you think crows are scared of a scarecrow? Yeah,

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they're right. Oh, crows are not scared. Believe me. Crows

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are laughing. The farmer puts out a.

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Scarecrow right with funny hat on. It got funny face.

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Crows fly by, they see that strike some plenty, makes

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him laugh and then they say, well, that old farmer

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Joe's down there.

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He's a pretty good guy.

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He made us laugh, So we will bother anymore.

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Hello, carry something.

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That's the most hair brand idea ever heard? That is true.

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Welcome to the Cinematic Flashback Podcast. Getting ready to hop

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into the wayback machine as we journey through the wild, bold,

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and unforgettable films of the nineteen seventies. Each episode, we

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break down a classic movie or forgotten gym, seeing how

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it performed then and now, and wrapping things up by

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asking did it group of the decades or did it

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lose its beat? I am your host, Chuck Bryant, and

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today we are reviewing Jerry Schatzburg's nineteen seventy three film Scarecrow,

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starring Gene Hackman and Al Pacino, and writing the rails

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with me today is Matt Sargent, Good to see you.

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Well, it's good to be back. Running away to join

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the navy takes a lot of time.

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Let's get back on the road, oh man. That is right.

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In our last episode, we took a trip with Jack Nicholson,

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Otis Young and Randy Quaid and hal ashbats the last detail. Today,

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we are traveling cross country with a film I first

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saw last year, right after Gene Hackman passed away, Scarecrow.

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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess

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this was a first time watch for you as well.

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It was. Indeed, I had never seen this film before,

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and that was a treat to see it now that

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I'm old enough to appreciate it. Twelve year old me

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would not have enjoyed this film.

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That is definitely for sure. By the third act, the

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story gets really deep and I cannot wait to get

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into it. Who is talking to us today, Chuck. Our

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good friend David Burns posted a review on Facebook for us.

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I don't know if you remember this, but David was

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the game show host on our Jaws episode.

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That is a very fun episode that people should go

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back and listen to if you haven't. He writes, and

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I quote a fantastic podcast with some knowledgeable hosts that

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make it not only interesting but also a lot of

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fun along the way. Highly recommend to not only listen

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to this podcast, but add it to your daily routine.

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Trust me, you won't be sorry.

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We have our work cut out to make this into

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a daily podcast. David. We appreciate you. We love your

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work over on both a Film by Podcast and Phaser

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Set the Stunt. Jeff, David and the whole gang make

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shows that you actually could listen to every single day

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and make it a part of your daily routine.

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Yeah, I think a daily would be tough for me

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at this point in the game, but I encourage you, Chuck,

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to go ahead and dedicate your life to making a

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quality podcast. Oh well, let me tell you. Yeah, we

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want to hear from you. Post a review of the

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Cinematic Flashback podcast and it will be possible for you

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to appear here in this podcast that you yourself review.

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Oh that's great, Matt, Thank you, Matt. I have a

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hypothesis as to why Scarecrow is a forgotten gym. This

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was a small film. It was intended to be a

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small film by the studio, and it was a small

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film in the Valley overshadowed by much larger films of

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that time. For example, nineteen seventy three, this might be

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the year we've covered the most on the podcast. Nineteen

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seventy three was stacked at the box office. The top

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ten films included The Exorcist, The Sting, American Graffiti, Papion,

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The Way We Were, Magnum Fours, Live and Let Die,

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Disney's Robin Hood, Paper Moon, and Serproco.

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Yeah, and just one year earlier, The Godfather dominated nineteen

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seventy two. The Poseidon Adventure opened in December and rode

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that disaster movie wave straight into nineteen seventy three. I

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recently read a quote that Gene Hackman gave that said

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he did the big budget films so that he would

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be free to do films like Scarecrow, which you know,

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I think we all can see that was more of

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an art film, smaller budget, very intimate, and I think

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when you watch the film, we're really glad that he

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got the big payday and was able to do this film.

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You know, Hackman also never made a small film like

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this ever. Again, he was blowing up and also too

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al Pacina. Yeah. In the summer of nineteen seventy three.

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Scarecrow was not a forgotten film at the time it

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may director Jerry Shatsburg took Scarecrow to cons and it

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shared the top prize, what would become the Palm d' or.

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That's one of the most prestigious honors in the world

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of cinema and back home. It wasn't really a disaster,

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but it wasn't a blockbuster hit either. It hit number

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one one time briefly in late June of nineteen seventy three.

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Reviews were mixed. Critics praised the performances, of course, especially Hackman,

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but questioned the film's final third act the most. Over time,

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it just slipped out of the mainstream conversation. It went

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from winning the world's biggest prize in cinema and somehow

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just becoming one of the least talked about films for

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either Hackman or Paccino.

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Funny last night, I asked my group of seventies film

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buffs about Scarecrow, and even though some of them are

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a couple of years older than me, none of them

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remembered it, which is sad because I think it was

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a good film. Of course, look at what came out next.

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I mean we just talked about it, so it's easy

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to see why it had been relegated into the dirty

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gift box of the past. Yeah, well, I think we're

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ready to get into the production details, but first we

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need to take a quick break.

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Yeah, you're driven a jail a line.

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You'll buy it right us.

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Behold the captains of industry, the prospective owners of Maxie's

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car Wash Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, maybe Maxi's car Wash carwash.

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Yeah, okay, for every car where it is dirty.

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Max and Lion. The only difference between them and the

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Rockefellers is a few hundred million dollars and about fifteen

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hundred miles. First off, there's Max.

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I've got to tell you.

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Something about me, some Meana Sundlin. I mean trust anybody.

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I don't love anybody. Hey, we're gonna be partners.

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Okay, okay, all right, come on, Max did six years

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in prison for beating the hell out of a guy

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and it didn't teach him a thing.

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Okay, all right, No, Max, just one way.

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Believe it or not.

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Max is the brains of the partnership, a.

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Me plastic fie for Joe Building six.

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And then there's a Lion.

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I think your speciality is gonna be waxing, waxing, wax

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no nowhere.

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And keeping the customers happening.

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Lion figures if you can make somebody laugh, you won't

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ever need to fight.

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Why did your call? Stupid?

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Lion is a scarecrow.

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You don't have to hit people.

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How did you make them laugh?

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Crowser not scared.

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Believe me, crows are scared.

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The croisy laugh, crosy laugh.

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Right.

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You know in a joint, I heard some tails. Oh boy, Holly,

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I heard some tall tales.

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I mean, you're not playing with the full deck.

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Man.

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It's been five years.

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You know. Your wife might be married, you might have moved.

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Away, but you give her a call.

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Look, I want to see my kid, right, What am

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I going to do? Shove the lamp through the phone?

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Sure, sure, send the money and see the world.

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Any please look, let me come over.

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I don't want to see you.

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Max and Lion, the prospective owners of Maxi's Car Wash.

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All they have to do is get to Pittsburgh. Between

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California and Pennsylvania, there are a lot of.

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Ups kicks on the house everybody, and.

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A lot of downs. Max and Lion, the future owners

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of Maxi's Carwash, Pittsburgh, PA.

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Welcome back. Let's get into these production details. Scarecrow was

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released April eleventh, nineteen seventy three, distributed by Warner Brothers,

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with a running time of one hundred and twelve minutes.

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It was directed by Jerry Schatzburg. I had never heard

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of him. I had to go and look him up.

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He was once a high profile fashion photographer for the

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magazine Vogue. He even shot the cover of Bob Dylan's

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Blonde on Blonde before moving into filmmaking with a film

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called The Panic in Needle Park, which helped launch Al

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Pacino's career. What goes better with Shatsburg's eye than cinematographer

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vilmosh Zigmann, whom we've talked about countless times on this podcast,

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most recently on Deer Hunter. You can still see his

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fingerprints all over this film. The screenplay was written by

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Gary Michael White, and it was one of his original stories.

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The score was composed by Fred Meiro. Now this was

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one where that name I recognized, but I had to

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look him up and I learned that he was a

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classically trained composer who at one point worked with Leonard

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Bernsteine at the New York Philharmonic. But nineteen seventy three

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turned out to be a pretty big year for him too,

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because he scored Soylink Green as well as Scarecrow back

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to back. But I'm sure that most genre fans might

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recognize his name from later in the decade, he wrote

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the score for the horror film Phantasm. So this is

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a composer who could move from dystopian sci fi to

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an intimate road drama to this cult horror. But much

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of the music in Scarecrow comes from sources that are

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inside the world itself, like from jukebox are radios and

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you can hear playing Wilson Pickett's in the Midnight Hour

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and Retha Franklin's You Make Me Feel like a Natural Woman,

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And even at one point Pump and Circumstances is played

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on the jute box.

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Which is a hilarious and really very fun scene. And

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with that playing in the background, it's really funny.

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Yeah.

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Now let's talk about the cast, and we need to

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start with mister Gene Hackman.

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This is nine years of planning right there, right there,

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nine years of planning. Initial bank saving so and so,

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accumulated bank interests so and so, expected salary while I

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was in a penitentiary. So and so total twenty six

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hundred and forty eight dollars and seventy three cents. That's

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planning ahead. Un there's Dan.

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By the way, that's something you don't do.

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Is there anything that seventies Gene Hackman cannot do?

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He is He is the man in seventy and I'll

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be honest with you. One of the things you just

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told me is kind of sad. But I think about

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that he didn't do more small films because he's such

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a talent, and obviously he brought that talent to some

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big films, and obviously at a certain point, just getting

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Gene Hackman into your film means you have a big film. Yeah,

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he was in that kind of demand and he delivered.

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I guess we'd get a glimpse into how Gene envisioned

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his craft in a more pure form in this because

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he really inhabits this character. I have a sneaking suspicion

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a lot of Max is really Gene Hackman.

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Before the film started, Pattino and I were up in

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San Francisco and we thought maybe we'd try to get

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into the characters, you know, the bombs and we got

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some clothes and stuff and walked around Market Street. I

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said to maybe we go to the Salvation Army that

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see if there's a soup kitchen or some mys A

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guy where it was. And he looked at us and

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he said, yeah, it's down a couple and you go

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over in this and I said, thank you, and he said,

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you're welcome, mister Hackman, Mistercino.

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To some expense.

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You know, I always say that about actresses and actors.

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I mean, I really get.

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They're pulling from something, right.

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They're pulling from something. And I don't mean to say

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I mean there are certain actresses and actors that I

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have said they are playing the exact same person in

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every film they appear in. It is themselves. Oh yeah,

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which you know can be entertaining. It also can be

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you know, one note flat, I don't think that's Gene Hackman.

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We've seen him in a variety of different roles, playing

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vastly different personalities. But I have a sneaking suspicion that

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there's more than a little bit of Gene Hackman in Max. Yeah,

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and Max is a volatile x con with the dream

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of owning a car wash in Pittsburgh, and he is

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the engine that makes this film move forwards that character.

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When we first started cinematic flashback, if you were to

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ask me, what role do you know Gene Hackman from

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I would say Lex Luthor, Superman. I would not have

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gone through this entire litany of films that we have

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watched and talked about. Hackman's performance in this is one

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you don't want to miss.

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What I was really shocked at is al Patino coming

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in with a performance that I thought was amazing for

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someone who I am not a big out I we'll

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just give you the heads up. I am not a

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huge al Patino fan until this film.

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Okay, listen, you got a middle name? Why well, I

253
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got a little trouble with Francis.

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You know, Lionel Final Francis Lionel Dope, okay, Lionel no on?

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You are lyon?

256
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Okay, Okay.

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He's best known for his films The Godfather Part one

258
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in Part two, but also he's about to do Surpaco,

259
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He's about to do Dog Day Afternoon. Yeah. I had

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one note for both of these guys. It was the

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way in which each one would prepare for a scene.

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Oh yeah, we always talk about method actors and method acting.

263
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Pacino inhabits who he is, and if you know the

264
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character of Lion, sometimes he might be a little too much.

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Pacino inhabits that character at all times. Hackman is different.

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Hackman before a scene will just withdraw completely into himself

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as he is beginning to visualize how he is about

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to go from being Gene Hackman to being Max. And

269
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sometimes those two preparation styles kind of collided on step

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and so sometimes it wasn't all the world's collide. It

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wasn't always a happy set on this one. I just

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think that's kind of part of how the sausage is made.

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I know, Chuck, you and you know I've done this before.

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You know, we're getting ready to take maybe a large

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speaking stage. Do we're going to present something, or we're

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going to present a project, or we're going to I mean,

277
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in our small little world, we have to prepare for that.

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We have to sort of go over what we're going

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to say. I can only imagine that's in some small

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piece what an actor goes through to get prepared.

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For a scenes.

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Funny thing talking about al Pacino in line, Like I said,

283
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in al Pacina, it's not one of my favorite actors

284
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:34.240
in the world, although he has delivered some amazing performances

285
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in his career, and in this particular performance, he plays

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00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:42.799
a character lion His real name is Francis Lionel, but

287
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he's a former sailor. Yeah, he clearly seems to have

288
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some fragility about how he deals with the world. Clearly,

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we know this, and we'll talk about this when we

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talk about how the film goes. The rest of the

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actors were just kind of the minor characters in the film.

292
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So we had Dorothy Tristan plays Coley, who was Ax's sister.

293
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If you went and watched the movie Clue, you'll recognize

294
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Dorothy Tristan. She played Arlene Page.

295
00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.440
Who was the junkie call girl.

296
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I did not notice that she was the same actress,

297
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But you are a little more attentive on these things

298
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than I am.

299
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I just read it in her IMDb page.

300
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Well, I really enjoyed her performance. It's very hard to

301
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.359
play the sister of this Max character. As a family,

302
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:28.599
they were on some hard times because clearly they were

303
00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:30.799
on the rails, they were running the rails, they were

304
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:33.839
on their own. Yeah, so it's an interesting peek into

305
00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.400
what sort of put Max together.

306
00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:40.200
And Wedgeworth played Frenchie. She was later known to TV

307
00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.759
audiences as Lana from Three's Company. She was also an

308
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Evening shade. I thought that in the scene where they're

309
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eating chicken and she's just kind of nibbling on Gene

310
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Hackman's ear, he's eating the chicken thuwing the bones and

311
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:55.559
the bucket.

312
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Oh, he wasn't completely ignoring her.

313
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He is describing, down to the most minute detail, everything

314
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.920
about the cost of this particular car wash. I thought

315
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.000
that that scene was well written. I don't think it

316
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:14.799
reached the level of his scene in The French Connection two,

317
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.000
but I think it was pretty close.

318
00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.160
For me, it was a great scene for a lot

319
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.000
of reasons. One is you have Frenchie, who is a

320
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.799
little bit of comic relief, a little bit of just

321
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.559
good time fun. It kind of represents kind of the

322
00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.400
other side of this You've been at this world that

323
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.240
these guys are slogging along trying to get to where

324
00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.119
they're trying to go, and they end up at you know,

325
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.480
Cooley's place, and Frenchie is there as well. And I mean,

326
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.480
to me, in the film, she represents kind of the

327
00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:49.640
what life could be, you know, for Max, for Max, yeah,

328
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.920
if he could accept it. And she does a great

329
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.039
job in this. She's really it's funny, it's I believe,

330
00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.079
in my heart of hearts, it's it's actually difficult to

331
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play someone Ditzie. So I think there's a lot in there.

332
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.480
And I really enjoyed her performance, and I'm glad to

333
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.920
see that she was in in other things later because

334
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I enjoyed her the whole, the way she played that

335
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:14.480
role and how that.

336
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.200
Role was written. Richard Lynch played Riley, and he is

337
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.839
the trustee at the prison farm who doles out the

338
00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:27.359
work details. Richard Lynch would go on to become one

339
00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:31.839
of the great scarred villains of eighty genre cinema. Whenever

340
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:34.920
a TV show needed someone who was like a bad

341
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.319
guy and you could tell because oh, he's the bad

342
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.519
guy because he's got scars, they would turn to Richard Lynch.

343
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But there's actually a dark story about how this guy

344
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got those scars. And those scars came from a nineteen

345
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:52.240
sixty seven incident in New York's Central Park in which

346
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he was under the influence of drugs and he set

347
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himself on fire. He burned more than seventy percent of

348
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his body and spent more than a year in recovery,

349
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and during that time he gave up drug reduse and

350
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.880
began training at the Actor Studio and the HB Studio

351
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.400
there in New York and found employment in various films

352
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and went on to have an incredibly successful career as

353
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an actor.

354
00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:23.440
It's tough to hear because burn victims. I mean, it

355
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.039
just is so so bad. I mean it's so painful,

356
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.960
and I can see how somebody might have a catharsis

357
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.400
from events such as that. But I'm sure glad he

358
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:38.440
was great in this film. You're definitely your hackles raised

359
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:40.519
as soon as he gets on the scene because you're like,

360
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:41.920
h is this guy good?

361
00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:42.519
Is it bad?

362
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.839
The way they developed that, I think in modern film

363
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.480
they'd immediately moved to his villainy ye. In this film,

364
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.720
they were careful to draw it out slowly. Yeah, And

365
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.839
I thought it was even again, just perfectly done, because

366
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.400
you know, I'm and maybe it's by you know my

367
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:06.960
now modern view is like trustee at a prison, he's

368
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.960
going to try to hurt someone, right, because we seed

369
00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:11.759
it over and over again, it's almost a trope. But

370
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:13.559
back then I don't think that was the case. It

371
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:15.960
was like, you know, I think back then you had

372
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.720
the seventies mindset about people going to prison and it's

373
00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.039
a work farm, and you know, you pay your time

374
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:24.160
and you get out. And we have echoes of the

375
00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:30.319
bad situation from conversations that Max and Lion have about

376
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:32.079
Max's time in prison.

377
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:35.880
And finally we have Penelope Allan. She plays Annie, who

378
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.759
is Lion's estranged girlfriend. She is perhaps the one character

379
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:45.079
in the film that I absolutely hated, just not in

380
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.680
a I hated her acting, but I just so strongly

381
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.319
disliked her character. Penelope Allen would go on to appear

382
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.319
with Pacino again very soon. She played the head bank

383
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.519
teller in Dog Day Afternoon. Huh, Matt, We've got the talent,

384
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.920
we got the pedigree. So what exactly were audiences walking

385
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.640
into in April of nineteen seventy three.

386
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.319
Well, we've given you some hints, but let me give

387
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.480
you a little bit more of a synopsis. Synopsis together,

388
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.240
your little synopsis here here you. Scarecrow follows two drifters

389
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:21.960
who meet on a California highway and decide to travel

390
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.319
east together. Max is a hot tempered ex convict headed

391
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.759
to Pittsburgh to open his dream of a car wash

392
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:32.039
with money he's been saving lyon as a former sailor

393
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:34.759
who's just been released, and is on his way to

394
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:37.839
Detroit to reconnect with the woman he left behind and

395
00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:41.319
the child he has never met. As they cross the country,

396
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.079
their odd couple partnership deepens into an unlikely friendship, but

397
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.680
a series of setbacks, including a stint in a prison

398
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.119
work farm and a painful reunion in Detroit, tests both

399
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:52.880
their dreams and their bond.

400
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.799
We need to take another quick break, and when we

401
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.400
get back, we are going to dive into our thoughts

402
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:06.880
on Scarecrow, Don't Go Anywhere. I'm Amber, I'm Dayton, i

403
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:12.039
am Disney's Jean, I'm Robert, and I'm Tim, and we

404
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.039
are the host of the Docum Bayed seventy seven podcast,

405
00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.000
and we're here to give you a little tease of

406
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:21.039
what to expect in twenty twenty six. In January, we're

407
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:23.519
bringing it back on our very popular sci fi movie Month.

408
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.640
That's one iconic film from the nineteen fifties, fifties, seventies,

409
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:29.279
and eighties. You all know that we love Disney on

410
00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:29.839
this broadcast.

411
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:31.720
I mean it's literally in my name. So Amber and

412
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:33.200
I are going to be going to spend some quality

413
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.519
time with you looking at their live action films from

414
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.000
this fifties, the sixties, and the seventies. Think twenty Thousand Leagues, Apple,

415
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:42.200
Dumpling Gang, and so much more. Now, the year nineteen

416
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.039
seventy seven was an important year for pop culture. We're

417
00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.680
talking game changing, earth shattering, culture defining moments. So we

418
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:51.839
are doing our longest series ever looking at films and

419
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:55.000
albums from that legendary year, Docu Base seventy seven, where

420
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:57.839
Broadway references meet the voice of reason and it's healthy

421
00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:59.880
for you. We're just a bunch of nerds discussing what

422
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.440
we're listening to, watching.

423
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.759
And reading, and as always encouraging you to listen to

424
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.240
more music, read more books, and watch more movies.

425
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.720
I remember, physical media is better than streaming. Docing Baby

426
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.240
seventy seven. You're a twenty twenty six adventure starts.

427
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:19.119
Here, Welcome back. From here on out, we might give spoilers,

428
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:22.799
so be prepared if you haven't seen Scarecrow, and I'll

429
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:25.039
be honest with you on this one. I really want

430
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:28.480
you to go hit pause and watch it and then

431
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.480
come back to this point because this I don't want

432
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:35.039
to give away the spoilers. It's not like there's cliffhangers

433
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:38.599
or anything, but you will more fully enjoy the film

434
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.000
if you don't have some of the spoilers we might

435
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:43.880
unintentionally reveal.

436
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:49.119
Let's talk about this odd couple. Max is structured and aggressive,

437
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:53.119
while Lyon floats through life and on paper, this pairing

438
00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:57.000
really shouldn't work, but somehow it does because both of

439
00:24:57.079 --> 00:25:01.960
them are actually outsiders trying to re enter the world.

440
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:05.759
So let's start by talking about Max and Lyon and

441
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.799
seeing how these two got pared together.

442
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.519
So I think one of the most interesting things about

443
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.039
this film is just how it begins and how the

444
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:19.799
relationship between these two characters begin. They both end up

445
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:24.319
on a road trying to get a lift. Max has

446
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:26.000
walked through a field to get there.

447
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.519
That was a beautiful shot, by the way, it was

448
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.279
when I was describing both Villemonsh and the director.

449
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.039
That shot is beautiful. That scene is absolutely beautiful. And

450
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.759
what's funny about it too, is you have this ultimate

451
00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:41.920
beauty and you have Max walking across the field and

452
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.200
he has to pass through a barber ware fence, which

453
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.599
when I grew up, we actually had one in the backyard,

454
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.559
and exactly what happened to Max? What happened to you?

455
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:52.119
All the time you get halfway through, your stuff would

456
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:53.400
get caught. It was very humor.

457
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:53.839
Yeah.

458
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.640
Max makes it to this road. It's kind of dusty.

459
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.720
The wind is blowing like crazy, and there's not a

460
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:00.599
lot to traffic.

461
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:01.039
You know.

462
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:03.680
The two characters are trying to both hitchhike, and Max

463
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:06.440
is clearly doesn't want anything to do with the other guy.

464
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:09.640
Lion is trying to get Max's attention.

465
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:14.519
Rank, What the hell's up? I'm out here now, it's

466
00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:17.519
five hours. I don't know.

467
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:19.200
I don't know what he said?

468
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:22.599
Well, do you talk? Well, wait a minute, I'll get

469
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:27.000
him on a wire. Hold on there, George, what the

470
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.799
hell happened? I talked to guy Frank on the wire here?

471
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.039
You want to talk to him? All right?

472
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:34.400
Go ahead, back.

473
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:37.000
He's carrying a box a gift, right, So this is

474
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:41.039
kind of this. Okay, here's this guy's he's obviously a traveler.

475
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.559
On the other side is this man Max. He wants

476
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:47.279
nothing to do with him, He's not even looking at him.

477
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.440
But they're competing with each other to hitch a ride.

478
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:54.599
And it's revealed why Max ends up being friendly to

479
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:57.519
this character. On the other side, Max is trying to

480
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:01.400
light his cigar. He smokes cigar virtually through the entire film,

481
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:04.720
even to the stick stand of picking cigars up off

482
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.200
the ground, and yeah, this is a good one. This

483
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:09.920
guy didn't have any teeth. I mean, some of those

484
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:14.000
lines are just class. Was so funny. Yeah. It turns

485
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.799
out that Lion gives him his last match and that

486
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:20.319
ignites the relationship.

487
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.359
I see what you did there. They end up getting

488
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:26.279
a ride and they they're sitting at a diner.

489
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:39.359
I'll have some opmea hell me one climate milk. Yeah,

490
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:51.720
he helped me and scrambled eggs, anything else, bacon, toast,

491
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:55.960
get that cream man. You got him money.

492
00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.079
I have to tell you, if ever I could go

493
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:01.759
and see it at a diner with someone while he's

494
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:05.400
ordering food, it would have to be with Max. I

495
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:06.319
just laughed.

496
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:09.720
It's like, well, only went coffee. Then what he asked

497
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:13.640
for to oatmeal, oatmeal, oatmeal, eggs, bacon, then eggs, and

498
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:15.759
the ladies like you want anything else? He's like bacon

499
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:19.279
and she starts to walk away and toast. And it

500
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.720
was funny because it was real it was real, but

501
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.519
was also real when you you open your mind up

502
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.119
a little bit and you think this guy was in

503
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.039
prison for the last six years, right, Yeah, no one

504
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.559
asks him what he wants. He just gets what he

505
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:35.000
wants when he goes down the line.

506
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:35.920
Oh that's true.

507
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.000
He's in this situation where someone's what do he want

508
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:41.720
and they will bring it. I mean, think about it.

509
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.160
After six years, it's like that. That's pretty It kind

510
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.759
of to me it was it opened up. Oh you serially,

511
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:50.920
this guy is definitely they'd both come from institutional food

512
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.920
places and then it shows.

513
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:57.640
So I think Max had just finished serving time due

514
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:02.640
to his temperare from a charge and Lion is he

515
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.160
was he was a sailor. I don't know if he

516
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.240
was in the Navy, if he was in the merchant Marines,

517
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.400
but but he was in the s Yeah. Something Max

518
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.599
learned very quickly in prison that you had to be

519
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:16.599
a good fighter. Why was Lyon? Why did he become

520
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:17.079
a sailor?

521
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:21.200
Lyon ran away from his girlfriend who had become pregnant

522
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:23.920
and he did not want to stay around, and he

523
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:26.400
just think he says it, he's he was I was

524
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:27.519
a coward or something.

525
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:28.079
As a kid.

526
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:29.240
You know I was a kid.

527
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:29.680
Yeah.

528
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.799
Max definitely reiterates to him as like, hey, you're a kid.

529
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:34.079
You didn't know what was happening.

530
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.319
Now you're trying to make it right and he runs away,

531
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:40.880
but he sends his pay yeah to the girl, although

532
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:44.119
he's never met it. No pictures, no nothing, no contact

533
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:44.759
from her.

534
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:47.480
He doesn't even know if his child is a boy

535
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.960
or a girl. Yeah, which then explains the contents of

536
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:53.720
the present as a lamp.

537
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:57.039
It's always funny to see that it's a box and

538
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.160
it's got a bow on it, so it's clearly a present,

539
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.640
but it's unlike any other present because you can remove

540
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:04.680
the lid and put it back on in the bowstays on,

541
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:08.640
which is an artifact of it being a movie. Yeah,

542
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:10.839
because they needed to be able to show the contents.

543
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:12.839
In any other case, it would just been wrapped with

544
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.400
paper and he would have said it's a lamp inside.

545
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:20.680
Well, Max was institutionalized in San Quentin. He too, was

546
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:24.640
making good use of his money because he eventually has

547
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:26.160
a dream for what he wanted to do.

548
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:29.559
Yeah, he saved every bit of money and he's got

549
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.240
the grand sum of like twenty three hundred bucks. Yeah,

550
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.480
that's enough. He's calculated that is enough to get him

551
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:40.359
started on buying a car wash and getting it going.

552
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.119
Does it ever say why he wanted to get this

553
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:45.400
car wash in Pittsburgh.

554
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:49.400
Probably he got a magazine or a paper and it

555
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:52.920
had car wash for sale, got fixated in his head

556
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.640
that he's going to Pittsburgh to do this. Because there

557
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.079
is a time in the movie when he meets up

558
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:00.920
with his sister and their friends and they're trying to

559
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:04.319
convince him why not open a car wash here? Coley

560
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:06.559
has a house. I mean, it's all set up, and

561
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.160
they're really trying to convince him. And part of this

562
00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:13.839
is that Lion definitely wants to get to Detroit, and Max,

563
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.559
without a doubt, is fixated on getting this car wash

564
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:18.200
in Pittsburgh.

565
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:20.720
Max is sending his money to Pittsburgh, so I guess

566
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.599
his bank is in Pittsburgh, that's right, So that makes

567
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:25.839
the most sense that it's going to be in Pittsburgh.

568
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.400
He doesn't quite realize that, Hey, it doesn't really matter

569
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.319
where your bank is. You can open it anywhere. And

570
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:37.200
I realized that from a seventies point of view, you

571
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:39.720
might not have that whole ability to wire money back

572
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:43.039
and forth as convenient as it is today. Literally, maybe

573
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.680
he did actually have to go there to get the money.

574
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:46.200
Well.

575
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:50.400
I think though, that his singular focus on this is

576
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.319
it informs the character a little bit. It's intended to

577
00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:58.319
realize that in some ways Max is not very smart.

578
00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:03.000
In other ways, he's very street smart. He just feels

579
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:06.279
like if he changes from that path, he doesn't know

580
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.240
where it'll end, so he is not willing to change anything.

581
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:13.240
And Lion is also somewhat single minded as well, because

582
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.799
he could pick up a phone and call from anywhere, right, he.

583
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:19.759
Doesn't need to go to Detroit. I don't know if

584
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:22.200
it's time for this, but I'm going to say something.

585
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.720
If these two hadn't met each other, things would be

586
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:28.759
much better for both of them. Interesting, and here's why

587
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.119
Max would have gotten to Pittsburgh without much fuss, because

588
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:34.160
he wouldn't have gotten into a lot of anything else.

589
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:38.319
For sure Lyon would have done what his original plan was,

590
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.039
which was to walk up to the door and knock

591
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:43.799
on the door. So we will talk about why. My

592
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:47.240
theory is these two guys may have been better off

593
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:48.480
if they never met each other.

594
00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:52.720
Well, I think that's a good point to begin teasing

595
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.319
that out a little bit more. Because Lion has this

596
00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:02.160
speech about scarecrows. Crows aren't scared of them, they're actually

597
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:07.960
laughing because the scarecrow looks so ridiculous and it makes

598
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:11.400
the birds laugh. And because the birds are laughing, hey,

599
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:13.799
we're gonna leave this farmer alone. We're gonna go somewhere else.

600
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.880
And this is why he's always trying to make people laugh,

601
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:21.720
whereas Max is much more straightforward. He's coming at it

602
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:26.759
with his fist. These are two diametrically opposite ways of

603
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.920
handling life and handling the things of life.

604
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:34.160
Well, I think there's more to it than just the

605
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:38.480
theory that he describes about the joke. I think this scarecrow,

606
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.200
the name of the film, and the two characters really

607
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:47.480
are the two sides of the Lion has a description

608
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:52.599
of a scarecrow being a joke, and it keeps the

609
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.519
crows out of the field because the crows enjoy the

610
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:57.440
joke and don't want to hurt the farmer.

611
00:33:57.559 --> 00:33:57.960
Mm hmm.

612
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.960
That's his theory of going through life. Keep people laughing,

613
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:04.319
they won't beat you up. Whereas Max, on the other hand,

614
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:08.079
is the proverbial scarecrow, right he is big, and he

615
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:11.719
is blustery, and people look at him and probably don't

616
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:13.960
want to mess with him. And when you look at

617
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.719
how he's dressed, that is really funny that you bring

618
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.639
that up, because it is a very important point in

619
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.559
this movie. Max is wearing layers and layers and layers

620
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:25.199
of clothes, which ends up being one of my favorite

621
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:28.039
scenes in the whole film is the first time Max

622
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:33.079
actually maybe avoids a fight is he does a strict

623
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:37.159
keys of his hundreds of layers of clothes in the bar,

624
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:40.480
and it's really fun. It's really funny. But that's sort

625
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:42.760
of the idea for me with Scarecrow was I was like,

626
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.400
what does scarecrow mean in this what are we talking about?

627
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:45.599
You know?

628
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.599
And a lot of times filmmakers tip their hand about

629
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.559
what this film is about by naming it. You know,

630
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:55.320
you have the two sides of this view of a scarecrow,

631
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:58.119
and you know how they navigate life using that. And

632
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.199
I think for the most part, Lion has been able

633
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:05.280
to navigate his life well with this, except for the

634
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:09.360
fact that it allows him to be cowardly and not

635
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:13.280
face things, which has been Yeah, I think part of

636
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.199
what his problem is is that he's not calling. He

637
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:18.280
didn't call her the whole time he was in the navy.

638
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:21.559
He had plenty of opportunities to call or write notes

639
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.559
or say I'm sorry I left, but I'm sending you

640
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.039
money and I'm coming back, right. He didn't do any

641
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.400
of those things. Max, on the other hand, meets most

642
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:32.280
challenges with his fists, which ends him in prison for

643
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.840
years and on the rails, and no doubt they probably

644
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.639
he and his sister were on the rails because he

645
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:43.840
couldn't navigate society in any normal fashion when she was

646
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:46.280
without him. She then gets a house to live in

647
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:49.320
and has a job in a life so.

648
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:53.119
They wind up in this work form because there's a

649
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:54.599
ruckus at a bar.

650
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:57.360
Yeah, but not after it was a good natured ruckus.

651
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:01.320
Were they playing pomp and circumstance in marching around the bar,

652
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:04.360
which was hilarious, It was so funny, But there were

653
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.960
some dudes who were they had beef with Max. Yeah,

654
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.159
he definitely isn't going to back down, and they went

655
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.639
after him when they were outdoors. So now you had

656
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:16.280
basically a whole bunch of people essentially what looked like,

657
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:18.519
you know, a mini riot going on, and the police

658
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:21.079
show up and everybody gets thrown in the whose gap

659
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:22.559
lying in that scene?

660
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.880
He wasn't wearing a bee keeper suit, was he? That

661
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:27.159
was like a fire suit.

662
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:29.079
It was some kind of fire suit because he jumps

663
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.840
in the fire. Okay, bucket remember at that point, Well,

664
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:35.199
I was reading someone was saying that that might have

665
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.159
been a be suit, and I'm like, I was in

666
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:38.800
an early fire fighting suit.

667
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:41.000
A be suit would not go on a fire.

668
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:43.239
Yeah, yeah, that was like it's one of the ones

669
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.719
you saw when you saw people fighting fires at like

670
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:50.280
oil well fires. I don't know if back in the

671
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.119
day you see the silver suit looked like that with

672
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:55.400
a big flat glass right late in all the yet

673
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:58.119
definitely fire definitely fire fighting suit of some sort of

674
00:36:58.440 --> 00:36:59.320
welding or something.

675
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.199
The two they wind up at the work farm, and

676
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:05.079
this is where we're introduced to the Riley character.

677
00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:08.599
Yeah, who immediately, you know, puts the hair on the

678
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:11.159
back of your neck, starts to stand up, and You're.

679
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:16.000
Like, Max is definitely given Lion the silent treatment. This

680
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:20.920
is what allows Riley to come in and start grooming Lion. Now,

681
00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:25.239
you and I we pick up on this right away, because.

682
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:26.480
You don't get something for nothing.

683
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:30.960
Riley assigns Max the worst job, which is shoveling up

684
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:35.960
the pig excrement down the pig farm. But for Lion,

685
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:43.159
he gives him jobs like washing cars or becoming the

686
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:44.360
talent scout.

687
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:44.920
Yeah.

688
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:47.360
I think we also see that Riley has some kind

689
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.639
of connections and he's hooking the Guard up with some

690
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:51.559
outside good time.

691
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:52.280
Yeah.

692
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:58.400
Inevitably leads to the altercation that physically damages Lion.

693
00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:00.719
Will Paul's hair for just a moment, think of it

694
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.559
as a real change stick around. There's more cinematic flashback

695
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:08.800
coming up right after this, and we're back. The lights

696
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:11.719
are down, the film's rolling, and the final act begins.

697
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.360
Let's jump back into the cinematic flashback podcast.

698
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.719
You didn't ask about the kid, Francis. I was cool,

699
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:28.239
So what is it?

700
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:31.119
Boy? Girl dead?

701
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:36.280
Never even got born, Francis, Because I was left alone.

702
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:39.920
I slipped on the on the front steps in the snow.

703
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:42.000
I fell down them. There was no one there to

704
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:44.760
help me. You know what I mean. I lost the kid.

705
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:51.280
It would have been a boy. Francis, never even got born,

706
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.800
never got baptized. You know what that means? That soul

707
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.639
cannot go to heaven? Francis, that's what you did. Your

708
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:05.000
son's soul, Your bust is send it into limbo. That

709
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:06.480
soul cannot go to heaven.

710
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:08.840
So man, if the work farm is where a lion

711
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.760
is physically damaged, I think Detroit is where he is

712
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:18.199
just emotionally undone. Detroit has always been his emotional destination.

713
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:21.800
It's the reason he's on the road. It's the reason

714
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.960
that he keeps laughing and keeps smiling, and then he

715
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:29.119
gets on that phone call and everything changes. Yeah. I

716
00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:33.320
wanted to point out something from a production standpoint. They

717
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.239
may not have had permits to shoot. Oh, they're talking

718
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:38.159
on the side of the road. They're being filmed, and

719
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.079
if you look, you'll see the traffic going by. Everyone

720
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:44.199
in the car is looking straight at.

721
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:46.239
Them, right, because there's a bunch of people standing around

722
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:48.360
with with ham reflectors and care.

723
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:51.639
That might even be the reason why there's bumper to

724
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:55.239
bumper traffic on this little small town road, because it's

725
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:57.719
a movie being filmed here and people are slowing down

726
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:02.719
and rubbernecking. So obvious that people are rubbernecking. I found

727
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.039
it funny, So I think I may have texted you.

728
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:07.440
I said, take note of this scene. I don't think

729
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:08.440
they had permits for.

730
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:09.119
The no no.

731
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:11.480
I think you're right, and they probably thought, oh we

732
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:14.679
can get this. Take at the payphone. Pay attention to

733
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:17.679
him making the phone call. It had a rotary dial

734
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:21.559
which you put your finger in and you moved a

735
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:24.559
certain number of spaces based on the number you wanted

736
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:28.599
to dial. And it was an ingenious invention that allowed

737
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:32.519
the switching equipment to hook your phone to the phone

738
00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:33.760
of the number you were calling.

739
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.480
I find it funny now that you described it, that

740
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.119
they were in the rotary phasis and not in the

741
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:41.039
push button, so it was old.

742
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:43.159
Yeah, it wouldn't even it would have been touch tone.

743
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:45.599
The funniest thing that happened to me, and this was

744
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:48.440
this is this has been quite a few years. One

745
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.079
of my nieces we were at the airport, and at

746
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:54.840
the airport they have payphones, right. She was probably ten

747
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:57.239
or twelve, and I took her over and I showed

748
00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:59.079
her a payphone. I go, hey, look at this, and

749
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:03.880
she's like, it's a phone hooked to the wall. She'd

750
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.880
never seen a phone a payphone in her life.

751
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.519
So my brief run in with a little bit of

752
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:13.280
larceny was I was down in Myrtle Beach, staying at

753
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.800
a campground, and they had a whole row of these

754
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:19.079
payphones near the mini golf. I realized that if you

755
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:22.440
took a palm fron, folded it up and stuck it

756
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:25.039
down into the catch where you put the coin in,

757
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:28.280
you can actually trigger a coin return or something you

758
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:31.719
didn't put in, and you could actually trigger all of

759
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.800
the coins to come in. And that was how I

760
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:39.639
got money to play at the arcade. So Lyon makes

761
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:43.440
this phone call. He calls Annie out of the blue.

762
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.239
I said earlier I didn't like Annie, but she was

763
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:49.199
played so well.

764
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:53.239
You can see that at the beginning, she's excited almost

765
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:57.039
to hear from like she's gone back in time. He's

766
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:01.400
finally called, and then slowly she kind of starts to

767
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:06.480
works herself up into a righteous rage, and she's going

768
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:10.039
to strike at anyone, and she's gonna hurt whoever she

769
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:10.599
can hurt.

770
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:14.760
And that's lie, Lion. She drops this lie on him

771
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:18.800
because you weren't here, because you ran out and you

772
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:23.119
left me. I slipped on some ice and had a miscarriage.

773
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.800
Max constantly tells him he should just make a phone

774
00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:30.599
call right, which would have ended in this way anyway,

775
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:33.480
Lyon's idea was he was always going to go to

776
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:37.400
the door, and I think in this particular case, Max

777
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.039
enabled that because if he had gone to the door,

778
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:42.239
I think this is the point of having her on

779
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.159
the phone and showing the child on the floor of

780
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:48.440
the one room right there in the view of the

781
00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:52.320
front door, that he would have seen the child. Yeah,

782
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:56.320
and he would have been, yes, ashamed, embarrassed, and all

783
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:59.840
those things that he was, but he wouldn't have been broken.

784
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.800
He would have thought, Okay, my money went to something good,

785
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.119
making a life for this kid. But she closes the

786
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:12.400
door on that, and it's horrific and tragic, and it

787
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.400
is why you hate that character. It's why I hate

788
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:16.000
that character.

789
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:18.119
From this point to the end of the film, we

790
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:25.880
really don't see Lion as he was. I mean, he's broken.

791
00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:30.920
It ends up with Lion going into basically a catatonic

792
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.800
state and being in a hospital.

793
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:36.599
And Max is beside himself, I've got money, I've got

794
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:39.400
money I can pay, thinking it's some kind of he

795
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:42.039
needs to pay. I mean, it's just it's a tragic scene.

796
00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:45.119
It's really hard to watch. And then what we see

797
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:48.800
is Max he still wants to get to Pittsburgh, but

798
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:53.440
he says he'll be back. He absolutely is coming back

799
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:54.199
for Lion.

800
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.199
So the question becomes, after all of that, does Scarecrow

801
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.440
still groove through the decade or does it lose its

802
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:03.599
beat today? Matt, I'll let you go first.

803
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.639
This is one of those films, in my opinion, that

804
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:10.679
when you first watch it, you're kind of like, hmm,

805
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.880
not sure. And one of the cool things about being

806
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:17.159
on this podcast is you get a chance to kind

807
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:21.400
of re review your thoughts and feelings about the film

808
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:24.599
when you watched it and really appreciate it. And this

809
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:28.920
is clearly one of those films that on retrospect, on

810
00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:33.679
thinking about it, and on review it is far far

811
00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:38.800
better than when you possibly first watch it. To me, now,

812
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:44.039
if I had something like the Cinematic Flashback podcast to

813
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:47.920
listen to before I watched this film, I would have

814
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:52.880
enjoyed it far more. But I also enjoy the ability

815
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:58.159
to reflect on the film and appreciate it for the

816
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:02.159
artistic and the the acting that was in it. I

817
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.280
definitely appreciated the acting while I was watching the film,

818
00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:09.719
but the entire story and how things were done, I

819
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.400
really started to appreciate after I reflected on it more.

820
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:17.440
This film clearly groofed in the old days because it

821
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:20.039
got that award, so people knew that this was an

822
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:23.400
amazing film. It got lost, I think, in history because

823
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:26.920
it was bookended by two amazing films coming out and

824
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.480
blockbusters and the advent of blockbusters in general. Now, watching

825
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.719
this much later in life for the first time, I

826
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:36.599
have to say that it is a great film and

827
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:40.920
it still has a beat. It's a different beat to me,

828
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:44.119
and it's a beat much appreciated by a kind of

829
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.159
a deep reflection on the film. And you know what,

830
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:48.880
some people don't want that kind of film. They want

831
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:51.480
to just watch a film that entertains and that's done.

832
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:56.199
This definitely hits on entertainment. It's fun to watch, it's

833
00:45:56.239 --> 00:46:00.599
fun to watch. Gene Hackman and al Pacino, fantast just

834
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:03.280
lots of fun. So I would say, yes, it definitely

835
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:06.840
hits a beat here in the mid twenty twenties.

836
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.760
When I first saw this film last year, it stuck

837
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:16.320
with me. I kept thinking about Lion's scarecrow theory and

838
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:19.960
just how it It's just not how scarecrows actually work,

839
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:23.000
it's how we kind of wish they would work. We

840
00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:26.760
would love to believe that if you just laugh and

841
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:29.719
you're a nice person, that you're disarmed people and they're

842
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:33.119
just going to leave you alone. And Max is what

843
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:37.519
a real scarecrow is. He projects strength, he keeps threats

844
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:40.840
at bay. And what I love is that after the workfarm,

845
00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.480
Max starts to shift. The strip t scene might be

846
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.320
my favorite in the entire film, because it's not only ridiculous,

847
00:46:48.679 --> 00:46:54.519
it's Max learning Lion's language, and for me, scarecrow grooves.

848
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:57.320
Any final thoughts, Matt, I always like to think what

849
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.719
would happen in the future after these two people, After

850
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:03.480
Max comes back and picks up Lion, would they both

851
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:07.639
move into a more healthy position? In other words, Max

852
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:13.480
disarms people more by being less confrontational, and Lion protects

853
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:18.599
himself more by by not just being the jolly jokester

854
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:22.360
but also being real about something. So I want to

855
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:24.719
know how they went forward, not in a sequel.

856
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.199
Well, Matt, you will be glad to know then that

857
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:31.559
the sequel did not go forward Because a sequel was

858
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:35.000
actually proposed. Lion would have recovered, he would have been

859
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:40.639
into computer programming. Max would be married with Frenchy and

860
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:43.639
they would have adopted an Asian daughter. Don't know what

861
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:47.159
this film would have been about, but there was a sequel.

862
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:50.320
I think Hackman did not want to be any part

863
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:53.119
of it, and Shatsburg said, well, we could just recast

864
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:55.360
as if you can recast Hackman.

865
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:58.960
That sounds hor horrifying, and again proves my point about

866
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:02.360
sequels are usually junk. But I will tell you there's

867
00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:05.159
some guys out there who like will basically tell you

868
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:08.199
everything they make on their car wash. I gotta tell you.

869
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:12.039
My feeling is Max is a multi millionaire because he

870
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:15.039
got in on the ground floor on self served car

871
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:18.800
washes and just goes to these places and empties the

872
00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:21.480
money out of these bins. Like these guys do on YouTube.

873
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:26.239
They become millionaires and they just do really well in

874
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:29.159
Frenchy and Koley come out and live with them in

875
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.719
Pittsburgh and they go to Pittsburgh Steelers games. And I mean,

876
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.239
that's my future vision of them.

877
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:38.239
Hey listen, if it's Friday night and we're in the

878
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:42.320
Alternative Universe and I'm in Blockbuster Video and there's two

879
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:48.239
potential sequels, I want your sequel more. Oh man, that's funny. Well,

880
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:52.960
that wraps up our road trip lineup coming in April,

881
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:57.480
we're shifting gears to crime, two heist films from the seventies,

882
00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:00.239
and we're gonna kick it off with The Getaway, starring

883
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.679
Steve McQueen and Ali McGraw and directed by Sam Peckhampah.

884
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:08.559
And we're going to follow that up with Walter Matthau

885
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:13.039
in a Don Siegel film called Charlie Arrick. I think

886
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.039
you're gonna like it quite a bit. There are two

887
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:19.000
very different kinds of criminal films, two very different styles

888
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:22.440
of filmmaking, but they're both very good films and I'm

889
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:24.679
looking forward to diving into both of those.

890
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:28.119
Oh that sounds amazing. And I might have seen The Getaway,

891
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.000
but I definitely have never seen Charlie Verrett. I am

892
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:33.679
a big Walter math ALFANSO. That's going to be great.

893
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:36.760
Thanks for tuning in. Let us know what you thought

894
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:41.280
about Scarecrow. You can reach us at www dot cinematicflashback

895
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:44.159
dot com, and don't forget to leave us a rating

896
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.000
and a review. It might just get red on the air.

897
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:50.199
If you enjoy the show, help us grow by sharing

898
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.840
it with your friends. Join us next time as we

899
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:55.840
hop back into the wayback machine and head once again

900
00:49:56.199 --> 00:50:00.159
to the nineteen seventies for another classic. We'll see you that, hm,

901
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:01.280
I'm sure.

902
00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:07.719
Flash back to the Tales untold, where the heroes were,

903
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:11.760
the buildings were bled from the highs to the loss.

904
00:50:11.800 --> 00:50:15.920
E be twist, spin, it's the thematic flashback.

905
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:22.719
Then the should beget hey, tell aloud yo, go like

906
00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:24.000
it right as us