June 3, 2026

THX 1138 (1971): George Lucas Before Star Wars

THX 1138 (1971): George Lucas Before Star Wars
THX 1138 (1971): George Lucas Before Star Wars
Cinematic Flashback Podcast
THX 1138 (1971): George Lucas Before Star Wars
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Season 2

Before Star Wars changed cinema forever, George Lucas made a very different kind of science fiction film.

In this episode of the Cinematic Flashback Podcast, Chuck and Matt kick off their Origin Stories series by exploring THX 1138, Lucas's ambitious 1971 feature debut. Set in a sterile future where emotions are suppressed through medication, individuality has been erased, and human connection is forbidden, THX 1138 remains one of the most unusual films of the decade.

Along the way, they discuss Lucas's journey from Modesto hot-rod enthusiast to USC film student, the formation of the legendary "USC Mafia," Francis Ford Coppola's role in launching Lucas's career, and how the failure of THX 1138 ultimately led to American Graffiti and Star Wars.

They also examine Robert Duvall's performance, Donald Pleasence's memorable supporting role, Walter Murch's groundbreaking sound design, and the many ideas that would later evolve into Lucas's galaxy far, far away.

Did audiences overlook a visionary science fiction classic? Or is THX 1138 an interesting experiment that never fully connects with viewers?

Join us as we ask the question: Did THX 1138 groove through the decades, or did it lose its beat?

Visit us at Cinematic Flashback and let us know what you think of the film.

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My telling you he's yours.

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Go ahead.

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What's wrong with me?

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What am I to her?

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She to me nothing?

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Yes, fine, she's an ordinary roommate.

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I share rooms with her.

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Our relationship is normal, conforming, excellent, share nothing.

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But space problem? What is she doing to me? Yes?

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I understand.

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I think I'm dying?

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Could you be more specific? Welcome to the Cinematic Flashback Podcast.

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Get ready to hop into the wayback machine as we

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journey through the wild, bold, and unforgettable films of the

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nineteen seventies. Each episode, we break down a classic movie

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or forgotten Jim, seeing how it performed then and now,

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and wrapping things up by asking did it group to

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the decades or did it lose its beat? I am

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your host, Chuck Bryan, and today we are reviewing George

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Lucas's nineteen seventy one film THHX eleven thirty eight, starring

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Robert Duvall and Donald Pleasance. This month we're focusing on

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origin stories, zero wing in on two films THCHX eleven

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thirty eight and Duel to look at where George Lucas

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and Steven Spielberg got their start. And joining me, of course,

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is Matt Sargent, Matt, how the heck are you?

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I am well, as you might remember, because we saw

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each other irl, as the kids say, just last week

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we went out and were able to catch a screening

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of The French Connection.

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I really enjoyed watching The Free Connection, and I thought

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that movie hit so much harder on the screen. What

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do you think?

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It was a lot better being screened, and it was

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a lot of fun to see it. We had a

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good time. So if you guys, wherever you're listening, if

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you get a chance to go to an obscure artsy

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theater and they're showing one of these seventies films, go

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because it was a blast. We had a good time.

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Even though The French Connection wasn't William Freakin's first movie,

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it was the first movie of his that I remember seeing.

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And that's really what this month is about. Before Star

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Wars and Jaws, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg were still

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figuring out just who they were, and the films they

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were making looked very different from what audiences would later expect. So, Matt,

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was this your first time seeing THCHX eleven thirty eight?

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Did your brain hurt as much as mine did after

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watching it. And what are some of your favorite pre

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Star Wars science fiction films?

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So, yes, it was my first time seeing THHX eleven

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thirty eight. It definitely made my brain hurt, you know,

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just astatically looking at the screen. Everything's white and everybody's bald,

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and girls and employees, everybody. So yeah, it was a

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little disconcerting and shocking. My favorite pre Star Wars movies

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are definitely The Day the Earth Stood Still. I remember

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the first time I saw it. I didn't see it

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when it was released, obviously, I was like six years

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old or something. I was really interested by it. And

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then of course two thousand and one Space Odyssey, that's

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just a classic. And then I just remember Planet of

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the Apes for dystopian sure, you know, futures of weird situations,

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and of course you also had Charlton Heston in it. Yeah,

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you damn dirty apes.

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Do you know what was amazing about Planet of the

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Apes is they had made Planet of the Apes into

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a very short run TV and they used a lot

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of the same masks and techniques prosthetics, thank you. Yeah,

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and it did a great job with it. Okay, my

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five or six year old mind remembers them doing a

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really good job of it. If I go back and

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watch it today, it may be really, really bad, but

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I remember loving that show.

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I'm a firm believer that, you know, it just needs

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to be enough to get past your disbelief, right, It

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doesn't have to be perfect. That's why puppets work, right, Yeah,

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puppets are clearly not real. But I mean, if anybody's

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ever watched The Muppets, you know there's real emotion in

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those puppets, right.

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You have to connect right at a level.

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Yeah. Yeah, So I totally agree that that those prosthetics

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were really effective, and I think there were groundbreaking at

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the time, you know, with the whole rubberized face and

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the moving and the teeth and were is it was

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pretty pretty shocking.

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So you mentioned two thousand and one. That was another

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film that I had a chance to go see a

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couple of years ago in the theater. I remember sitting

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in front of a couple of twenty something year olds

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who were coming to see it because of course, hey

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it's Stanley Cooper. It's being shown on the big screen.

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They included the intermission. It blows their mind as to

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what's going on. Are we actually doing this is this

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and I'm like, yeah, this is this is your intermission,

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So go get some more popcorn, go do whatever you know,

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but but be back in about five minutes and you

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should be good to go. Okay, Matt. You know, getting

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feedback can be great, but getting criticism can be hard

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to take sometimes. And we recently got some feedback that, well,

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it's stung just a little bit.

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Hey, Well, when you ask for input down, you gotta

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expected to sometimes be good and sure sometimes give us

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a mid courtse correction. So sure, sure. We got a

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little feedback from a fellow Phil Crocker, one who found

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our Clute episode to be uninformative ouch and left us

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two stars. Yeah, that's what he said, Clute is my

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first episode. Except for the neat comment on Clute gradually

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bringing light, all you did is recount the story, saying,

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whether you're liked it or not as boring, you're not

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Sarahs or Kale, and so why should we care. A

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young person watching the movie will easily understand the use

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of answering machines an extended riff is totally unnecessary. Much

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better would be a history of the development of the

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film in terms of script actor director choices critical responses

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than in the fullness of time and in any actual

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unique or insightful insights you might have. Ps A role

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can never in itself be an Academy Award role. Fond

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had nailed an extremely challenging character, and most, if not all,

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other actresses would have failed. So I don't disagree with

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his commentary, and I think Clute was probably one of

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the ones where we kind of maybe went on to

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much about recounting the story. I will say personally that

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I think there are roles that are written that are

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clearly intended as an elevated role to garner attention of

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the Academy.

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Sure, Oscar bait.

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It's Oscar bait. It is what it is right now. Yeah,

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I don't disagree that any other actress might have just

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plopped that role. Yeah, Jane Fonda was great in it,

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and we said so.

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We said that as much that Jane Fonda was amazing

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in that role.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We do oftentimes end up recounting a lot of the story,

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and I think a lot of that is I mean,

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to be perfectly honest, Matt, you and I are finding

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our voices for what we want. That section of the

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show to be Phil is listening. We definitely hope that

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you are. You know, we have made changes in that

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third segment where we're asking each other a little bit

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more questions to try to try to get some of

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that iea of our ideas out now. Matt and I

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wish we could be Andrew Sarras or Pauline Kal. We

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wish we had that kind of insight. But listen, you're

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gonna get the critic who says it stinks or you know,

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or it's good. That's really just who we are, and

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we hope that along the way we are able to

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highlight films that maybe people haven't remembered.

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Sure, and I think, as they say, any publicity is

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good publicity, and I think any interaction with us is

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a good thing. Right. Sure, we thank Phil for the

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time to make us thoughts known, because he could have

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just turned us off, right he did, he cared. I

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really appreciate that, and hopefully this will make us a

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better podcast. We know that people's time is super valuable,

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so we appreciate it when someone actually listens and then

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makes some suggestions. So we definitely appreciate that input. We

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don't disagree with it. Wholeheartedly. I think you know, it

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is our show. We are going to say our opinions,

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and people can care or not care. After the fullness

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of listening to a few of our podcast and maybe

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finding a movie that you a hidden gem or something

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that you would not have normally seen, then we've done

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our job and that's sort of why we're here. Yeah,

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so I will also say good or bad, We look

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forward to your interaction. Please please leave us a comment,

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leave us a rating. I mean, certainly we would like

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to have five stars, but if you have what you

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feel are fair criticisms and that preserves two stars, then

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go ahead and give it to us. You always can

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write email messages directly to us if you don't want

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to actually, you know, make a big public statement about

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how you would like to see the podcast improved. But

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we are not shy about getting feedback and we will

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take action on it. And I think anybody who's been

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listening to the podcast knows that we've made like you said,

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we've evolved that middle section to be a little less

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here's the story and a little more would you think

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about this? And would you think about it?

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Yeah?

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Which I think is more fun. It's more fun for us.

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So it's easier quite.

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You're right, So, Matt, before we got Phil's comment, this

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next little segment in our intro was one that I

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had started doing. You and I do a lot of research,

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a lot that tends to just never even make it.

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So I figured, hey, I've done some work here. Let

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me just put together a little something that sets the

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tone of the movie or the director, or the producer

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or the one producer who shot the other producer, something

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that is interesting to get people some connective tissue behind

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the film so that when they go to to watch it,

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they have a little something that they can hang on to.

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Our little nugget that maybe they can even impress a

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friend with.

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But before you say that, let's be perfectly honest with

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our audience. You do most of the research. I'm along

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for the ride. My research is I remember watching this

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movie as a child.

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You are my Ed McMahon. Okay, you bring the fun

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and the color commentary is I think he once said,

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once upon a time.

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So I do like this section that you do because

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it does open a lot up for me and learning

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about the different things. And once you're open to some

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of that stuff, I will tell you that I was

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listening to something and somebody's making a comment about how

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George Lucas saw this crazy student film out of Canada

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which led him to come up with this whole idea

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of the force and stuff like that, which is just

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so cool, so very very cool stuff.

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Well, George Lucas getting into him as a filmmaker. He

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didn't start off dreaming about Hollywood. He's just this kid

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from Modesto, California. Now Modesto not a very big place,

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but his dad was very prominent there. He owned a

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stationary store and he helped one day that George would

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grow up to take over the family business. But when

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you're a young teenager, you don't want to go into stationary.

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One, two, three o'clock, four o'clock rock.

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George's passions was in photography and cruising the streets on

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Saturday night, chasing girls and listening to rock and roll.

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What he really wanted to be was a mechanic. This

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is one of those strange stories where something has aligned up.

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One of the people that he meets in the racing

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circuit is a guy by the name of Haskell Wexler,

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who is not only a race car driver but he's

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also a cinematographer. Now, when you were reading a little

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bit about George, did you come across his accident?

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I did, I did.

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He got t boned and he probably should have died.

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This is where that meeting with Haskell actually pays off,

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because Haskell helps George get into the USC Film School.

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He meets others who would make a group that was

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called the USC Mafia. I want to take just a

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little bit of a side to go through and list

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some of the other members. Not only was it George Lucas,

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John Milliuse, Howard Kazanjian Kazan produced films such as Raiders

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of the Lost Arc, The Empire Strikes Back in Return

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of the Jedi. Walter Merch not only did he do

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this sound in this movie, he did this sound for

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Apocalypse Now, The Conversation, The Godfather Part two. Hal Barwood,

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who was a screenwriter as well as Matthew Robbins. Matthew

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Robbins also directed Dragonslayer. Then you have Randall Kleiser, who

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was the director of Greece, Caleb Deschanel who was a

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director of photography for the movie The Right Stuff, Robert Dalva,

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who was an editor on films like Jurassic Park three, Jumanji,

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The Black Stallion, Hidago. William Hayak and his wife Gloria

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Katz wrote the screenplay for American Graffiti. And then the

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last member of the original group was a guy by

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the name of Donald Glutt. He was a writer for

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television animation, also the author who wrote the novelization for

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The Empire Strikes Back.

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It's pretty crazy that that much creativity came out of

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that few set of years.

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Here's the crazy thing, man, this is not the USC

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Film School of today. This is the USC Film School

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of the sixties. People did not learn their trade by

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going to film school. They learned their trade by doing

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the work, which means you have to have an end right.

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This is where an opportunity arises because there's a competition

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that both Merch and George Lucas did. The winner would

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get to go to the lot of Warner Brothers and

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they would get to see a film being made. Of course,

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it's our boy George Lucas who wins. They send him

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over to watch the making of a musical directed by

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a young graduate from the UCLA Film School, Francis Ford Coppola.

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Amazing after Coppola finished. His next film was called The

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Rain People. The Rain People starred Robert Devall. George Lucas

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brings Walter Merch along. The two of them begin to

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work on taking a student film than making it into

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a feature film, and that feature film would become THHX

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eleven thirty eight. Lucas and Coppola launched American Zootrope, with

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Warner Brothers financing their little experiment. Their first film was

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going to be THCHX eleven thirty eight. When the film

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was finished, it was shown to the Warner Brothers executives

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and they hated it. They pulled all of the support

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that they had given to Zootrope and it nearly collapsed

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that company even before it had a chance to begin.

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The irony is is that the Godfather was right around

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the corner, and the benefactors of that wasn't Warner Brothers.

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It was another studio we've talked about before, Paramount with

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Robert Evans, and Lucas learned a very important lesson. It

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proved to him that he is able to build and

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create worlds. What it doesn't prove is that he can

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actually reach and connect with an audience. He goes back

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to his modesto roots. You know, those Saturday nights where

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he would spend cruising the streets, chasing the girls and

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listening to rock and roll. And he makes a movie

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called American Graffiti, and that film is a smash hit.

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And his next film is Star Wars.

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That's amazing. It's so weird to hear the story of

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these guys as they're coming up. I bring my view

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of it as a young person in the nineteen seventy

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It was just part of the audience. I do not

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remember THHX eleven thirty eight, but I sure remember American Graffiti,

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The Godfather, and of course Star Wars as a young

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person growing and then these movies coming one after another,

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and seeing these just just the whole entertainment industry change

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right before your eyes. It was great to be a

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young person during that time. Well, I think we were

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ready to get into the production details, but first we

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need to take a quick break.

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And flash back.

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All Earth.

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Counsile, in its infinite wisdom, has decided the two numbers

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are to be disposed of. The Biochemical Forum has demands

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to make on their parts, however, before they are eliminated.

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That's the kind of efficiency that makes you proud to

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live in this era, this series.

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Rare to thirty eight again, Kindness back off checks eleven

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thirty eight.

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You have asked, are we happy?

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Are we happy?

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And effective consultation with leading experts in the field makes

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it perfectly clear, perfectly clear, that we are all now

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programmed for perfect happiness, perfect happiness, perfect happiness, perfect happiness.

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Correct.

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What did they do to you?

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There are, of course occasional technical or electronic errors in

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programming and or surveillance which produce perverse exceptions. First they

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start skipping prescribed blood dosages. Then they begin touching, then

321
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indulging in various sexual acts and the ultimate perversion love.

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For such extreme psychobiological misfunction, only isolation will do, despite

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rumors to the contrary. It should be made perfectly clear,

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perfectly clear, perfectly clear. There have been no rebeat, no

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unprogrammed departures, no pursuits. Shell people will attack any person's

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venturing beyond prescribed areas.

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Wow, welcome back. Let's get into the production details. THCHX

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eleven thirty eight was a release on March eleventh, nineteen

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seventy one, and was distributed by Warner Brothers with a

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running time of eighty eight minutes, with a budget of

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seven hundred and seventy seven thousand, seven hundred and seventy

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seven dollars and I'm not making that number up. It

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00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:45.440
took in nine hundred and forty five thousand dollars during

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its initial run. George Lucas's first film was a commercial failure.

335
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The film was re released after Star Wars and in

336
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two thousand and four after the director's cut was released,

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eventually bringing in two point four million dollars. The screenplay

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was by George Lucas and Walter Merch and produced by

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American Zootrope. THCHX eleven thirty eight was edited by George Lucas.

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00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:10.559
Walter Merch created the unique soundscape of the film that

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is integral to the story. Music was by Lalo Schiffrin,

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who is quickly becoming one of my favorite composers of

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the seventies. Contemporary reviews by Roger Ebert, Vincent Canby, and

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Charles Champlin came to similar conclusions. It's narratively of two

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set times, but it endures as a visually and sonically

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haunting sci fi experiment. THHX eleven thirty eight has a

347
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seventy two percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes, with a similar

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audience rating of seventy three percent.

349
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Let's talk about this cast, Yeah, most notably Robert Duvall.

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He carries the whole film on his shoulders. And I

351
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mean Robert Duvall is an amazing actor, right, yeah, just,

352
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I mean he's really People remember him as a good actor,

353
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but when you see him act in a film like this,

354
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be prepared for a film that is probably not like

355
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many other films you've see. Robert Duvall, obviously, as I said,

356
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was a great actor and appeared in many things. And

357
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of course he was into killing mopcking Bird. He was

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in the theatrical version of Mash. He was in The

359
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Godfather as the Consiglatore and the Outfit, the Conversation Apocalypse Now,

360
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where he was amazing, and the great Santini Weary is

361
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also amazing.

362
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I had almost forgotten that he was Frank Burns and Mash.

363
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Yeah yeah, And of course in Apocalypse Now he's Colonel Kilgore.

364
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It was roommates with Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman while

365
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they were struggling stage actors. Exactly can you imagine that apartment.

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I can't imagine what it was like when Gene Hackman

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drank the last beer and Dustin Hoffman comes in. I mean, like,

368
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what what is that argument like?

369
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Oh?

370
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It would have been hilarious.

371
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Well playing sen fifty two forty two is the great

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actor Donald Sutherland, I mean Donald Pleasants. Crap, I've been

373
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calling Donald Sutherton and Donald Pleasants all this time, and

374
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now the first time I have a chance to call

375
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Donald Pleasance Donald Pleasants. I call him Donald's subtle. Oh okay,

376
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:10.680
forgive me for that contrivance. I know him as Doctor

377
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.240
Loomis from Halloween.

378
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I did not even remember that one.

379
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That's like his most famous role. What do you remember

380
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:17.039
him from?

381
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I just remember him in The Great Escape where he

382
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was blind and he was hiding it.

383
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:26.599
Donald Pleasants was one of two actual POWs on the

384
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cast The Great Escape. Also played the President in Escape

385
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:35.119
from New York, which was Snake Pliskin's target to rescue

386
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out of New.

387
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York Snake Bliskin.

388
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But we would see much more of Donald Pleasants. But

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somebody who would not see anything else from again would

390
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be Maggie mcconey, who plays Luh thirty four to one seven.

391
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She decided that after THHX eleven thirty eight she wasn't

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going to pursue a film career.

393
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I think that's a real sad story. I think she

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did a good job.

395
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There is a promotional on the making of THHX which

396
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shows them getting their hair shaped, so they did this

397
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out in public. It's always hard. You could tell Robert Devall, well,

398
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he's already got a big bald spot up there, so

399
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for him it wasn't that much of a difference. But

400
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for Maggie and for a couple of the other female actresses,

401
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it's very hard. It's hard to watch because you can

402
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see them take.

403
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Some years to grow it out again. But I think

404
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.799
it's also noteworthy to realize that Luh is kind of

405
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the prime instigator of the entire film. She's the one

406
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that decides she's going to stop taking some of her

407
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sedatives and in so doing realizes she has feelings for

408
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:47.960
THHX and decides that she's going to switch his sedatives

409
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out so that he can experience emotions as well.

410
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.079
The last actor that I did want to point out

411
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was Don pedro Coley, who plays SRT fifty seven fifty

412
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.359
two who was one of the Hologram entertainers.

413
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.759
I actually got confused on this because when he said

414
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.720
he was a hologram, I really thought that he was

415
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actually a hologram, so it might have been a robot

416
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:16.519
or something that became real. So I was a little

417
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:17.400
confused on that.

418
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.599
I must have misunderstood because I thought that he was

419
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.200
a person who was on the Hologram entertainment.

420
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.960
No, I think you're right. I think you gotta be

421
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.839
corrected because it doesn't make any sense. I was just confused,

422
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.319
And to be honest with you, in this film confusion.

423
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:34.599
It's part of the package, right part.

424
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.599
And Parcel I really liked him though.

425
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.079
It was a great character. He was great and he

426
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actually comes in at the end where honestly, the third

427
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:44.519
act it starts to pick up and some action happens.

428
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:48.000
But one piece of trivia that I wanted to point

429
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:53.839
out this film predicted separate channels for violence, sex, comedy,

430
00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:56.160
and news. Matt, why don't you go ahead and give

431
00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:58.559
us a synopsis for THHX eleven thirty eight.

432
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:00.759
So I think this is straight off the it is,

433
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:02.279
but I'm just going to read it for you because

434
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:09.759
it's not bad. It's not bad. A chilling look at

435
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:14.759
the future that also reflects the present. THCHX eleven thirty

436
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.000
eight stars Robert Tufall as a man whose mind and

437
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.440
body are controlled by the state. When THX begins to

438
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break free, he makes a desperate attempt to escape a

439
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.279
world where thoughts are regulated, freedom is non existent, and

440
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:37.079
love is forbidden. How was that?

441
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.039
That's your movie trailer man?

442
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:42.599
Voice? That's what it is. Someone told me a long

443
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time ago that I should be a voice actor. I

444
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don't think so, but it's fun.

445
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When we come back. We're going to go ahead and

446
00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:53.480
dive into our thoughts on THHX eleven thirty eight, but

447
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:55.599
first we need to take another quick break.

448
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Don't go anywhere.

449
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:06.160
I'm Amber, I'm Dayton inm Disney's Jean, I'm Robert, and

450
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:07.720
I'm Tim and.

451
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We are the host of the docum based seventy seven podcast,

452
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:11.519
and we're here.

453
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:13.720
To give you a little tease of what to expect

454
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:14.960
in twenty twenty six.

455
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In January, we're bringing back on our very very popular

456
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:20.799
sci fi movie mon that's one iconic film from the

457
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.480
nineteen fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties.

458
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:26.039
You all know that we love Disney on this broadcast.

459
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:27.880
I mean it's literally in my name. So Amber and

460
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:29.400
I are going to be going to spend some quality

461
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.839
time with you looking at their live action films from

462
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:35.359
the fifties, the sixties, and the seventies. Think twenty Thousand Leagues, Apple,

463
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:38.640
Dumpling Gang, and so much more. Now, the year nineteen

464
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:41.559
seventy seven was an important year for pop culture. We're

465
00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.319
talking game changing, earth shattering, culture defining moments. So we

466
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.519
are doing our longest series ever looking at films and

467
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:52.240
albums from that legendary year, Documase seventy seven, where Broadway

468
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:55.000
references meet the Voice of Reason and it's healthy for you.

469
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.480
We're just a bunch of nerds discussing what we're listening to, watching.

470
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.799
And reading, and as always encouraging you to listen to

471
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.319
more music, read more books, and watch more movies.

472
00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:07.880
I remember, physical media is better than streaming. Docing Baby

473
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.359
seventy seven, You're a twenty twenty six adventure starts here

474
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:14.960
and flash back.

475
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.000
Welcome back. Check and I are about to get into

476
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:22.119
our thoughts on THHX eleven thirty eight, So there may

477
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.880
be spoilers ahead. Just a heads up. This might be

478
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.279
a good time to pause the podcast and check out

479
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.519
the film if you haven't seen it yet. The original

480
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.440
nineteen seventy one version isn't widely available, and the nineteen

481
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.000
seventy seven version can be difficult to track down. We've

482
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.480
heard you might find it over on the Internet archive,

483
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.720
but we'll leave that for you to verify. The only

484
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:47.160
widely available commercial version is the two thousand and four

485
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:50.960
Directors Catch, which you can rent from the usual places.

486
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.519
Since this was your first time watching it, how long

487
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:57.839
did it take before you realized what kind of movie

488
00:27:57.880 --> 00:27:58.640
this was going to be?

489
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:02.319
I was pretty sure what it was going to be

490
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.680
kind of right from the beginning. It was able to

491
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:09.359
kind of explain itself pretty well going in, but there

492
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:12.640
was a lot of details left off. Who's running the show?

493
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:15.240
Do you ever find it out? What's going on? So

494
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.400
there's a lot of questions, but you kind of get

495
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:20.920
the general drift of things that were going I would

496
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:24.400
say it wasn't a film that kind of locked me in.

497
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:29.200
It does keep you at an arms length, and I

498
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.200
think that is somewhat on purpose.

499
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:34.839
Yeah, I would agree. You know, we've talked about this

500
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:38.119
before with films that are trying to give you while

501
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.839
watching it. They're trying to orchestrate a feeling, you know.

502
00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:44.680
I think we definitely talked about that in The Sorcerer

503
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.640
and some other films like that, and I think this

504
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:49.000
definitely was doing that. This was trying to sort of

505
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:52.200
put you into this dystopian future where all hope is

506
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.759
lost and this automatons are going forward.

507
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.039
So whenever I mentioned THHX eleven thirty eight people who've

508
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.799
seen it, the first thing that they say is, Oh,

509
00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:05.480
it's basically George Lucas doing nineteen eighty four. What do

510
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:06.119
you think of that?

511
00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:12.119
I would say that's a fair comparison, But I actually

512
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:16.000
think it's more Logan's Run without the fun. Oh right,

513
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:19.240
Logan's Run without the fun. And to me, that's why

514
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.160
the whole thing falls flat, because my personal opinion is

515
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.000
you cannot get humans, whether you give them drugs or whatever,

516
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.079
without significant police. I know we had monitoring and we

517
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.559
had those robots, but they were stupid and slow, and

518
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:35.960
you can't get humans to do what you want without

519
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.200
tricking them. Like the Matrix. You know, you build this

520
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.160
whole world that they can live in because they think

521
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:43.359
they're free, and then everybody's free, and the same thing

522
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:46.200
with Logan's run. It's like, Okay, everything's taken care of,

523
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:48.400
you have plenty of food. You just have to go

524
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:51.240
to carousel when you're twenty nine and get murdered. But

525
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.599
you don't know that. You pretend like you're getting rejuminated

526
00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.599
or whatever. Yeah, I think it's exactly like that, except

527
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:01.400
for it's just depressing, is all get out. And yeah,

528
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:04.519
they just give them a lot of drugs. And honestly,

529
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.039
if you think about the time they were coming out of,

530
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:10.000
they're coming out of the nineteen sixties, you know, where

531
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:14.400
drugs were really prevalent and LSD was making it was huge,

532
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.240
and heroin and all these crazy drugs and stuff. So

533
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:20.559
people of that time probably believed in the future that,

534
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.839
you know that maybe you could be one hundred percent

535
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.880
controlled by giving a regiment of pills every day, which

536
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.640
you know, I mean, obviously we are in a society

537
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.480
now that uses a lot of mood enhancing drugs and

538
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:36.599
people under prescriptions and stuff like that we understand, but

539
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.839
not to the extent it's shown here. So that sort

540
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.920
of fell flat for me. I didn't. That was unbelievable

541
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:42.200
for me.

542
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:46.480
So I think what I almost missed watching this film

543
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:50.359
is that it starts off before the Warner Brothers logo,

544
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.559
the nice nineteen seventies red shield logo, not the one

545
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:57.440
that we're used to seeing now. There is a short

546
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:02.200
flip from Buck Rogers.

547
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:08.119
Roger in that, but Jery Buck Rogers now adventuring in

548
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:11.440
the amazing world of the twentieth century. By turning a

549
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:14.279
little dial to project us ahead in time, we're able

550
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:16.000
to be right with Buck and his friends in the

551
00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:17.039
wonderful world.

552
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:18.519
Of the future, the world that.

553
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:21.839
Sees a lot of our scientific and mechanical dreams come true.

554
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.880
You know, there's nothing supernatural or mystic about Buck. He's

555
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.480
just an ordinary, normal human being who keeps his wits

556
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:33.079
about him.

557
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.359
I know that George Lucas grew up watching movie serials,

558
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:41.240
but this is not George Lucas in his thirties. This

559
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.319
is still him, like he's twenty three, twenty four to

560
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.839
twenty five at the time, and this is a guy

561
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:50.519
who's still quite young, quite finding out who he is

562
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:54.559
in this world. It's almost like he recognizes that desire

563
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:57.920
for what the future could be. But he says, this

564
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.759
is really where I think we're actually going to go with,

565
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:03.559
you know, the advent of all of this technology at

566
00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:06.680
some point, who's behind it? I don't think anyone's behind it.

567
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:09.119
It could be just a computer that's behind it. And

568
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:13.920
everyone has been conditioned with the drugs. They're also conditioned

569
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.000
to no longer care. This is where I think it's

570
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:20.680
different from nineteen eighty four. Nineteen eighty four is all

571
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:25.039
about big brother. It's all about forcing what you think,

572
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:29.079
and if you don't agree with the state, the boot

573
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:32.400
is put on your neck. In this movie, we've gotten

574
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:35.519
to the point where people don't even care. And you

575
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:41.039
pointed out that the robots are basically feckless bad you

576
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:46.279
have nothing, They can't do anything. By the end, they're

577
00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:49.359
begging him, please come back for your own good. Don't

578
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:51.559
go up there, you know. So I was going to

579
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.160
ask you what your reaction was when the movie ended.

580
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.559
I would have loved for it to gone on a

581
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.799
little bit to see what was out there was eden

582
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.799
out there. To me, it would have been cool for

583
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.319
him to walk out into what essentially would be like

584
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:13.440
a wild earth, untamed and fresh, and he's he's walking out. Unfortunately,

585
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:16.759
he's walking out by himself. So to me, it would

586
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.200
have been a better film all the way around. If

587
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.960
he and l U H walked out into this garden

588
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:26.440
of Eden and he is essentially Adam and Eve right,

589
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.359
and you get into the whole Wait a minute, was

590
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.559
this actually Adam and Eve in the garden? Yeah? So

591
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:34.720
the end for me was a little hollow, but it

592
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.920
was also sort of like, Okay, they've been doing this

593
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:41.559
to us the whole movie. The whole film has been

594
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:45.960
a little bit sort of unsatisfying on how things are resolving.

595
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:49.240
You know, what happens to people and where they go,

596
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:53.319
and they're in that weird prison that's just a white

597
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:55.519
space that goes on for a really long time but

598
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:56.200
not forever.

599
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:58.880
But you notice it's a prison, right, but there are

600
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.400
no doors, but it's unlocked. All you have to do

601
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:04.920
is have that hologram guy SRT say no, look right

602
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.039
over there, and then they walk past wherever he was

603
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:10.960
pointing at. I think Sen said, hey, nothing happened.

604
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:11.199
Yeah.

605
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:11.320
Well.

606
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:13.360
The other part about it is, if you recall at

607
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.960
the end you had the shell dweller. Now, at no

608
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.840
point while PHX was running from the robots, was there

609
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.920
any door he went through. He just kept running and

610
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.440
then he got into a pipe and then he gets

611
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:27.920
to the shell dwellers. So I'm like, why aren't the

612
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.639
shell dwellers coming down into this area? Maybe that's the

613
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.840
number one job for the police. It could be the

614
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.280
other thing. I will just give you My other criticism

615
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.480
on this whole thing is when he's less drugged, he's

616
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:44.719
less good at his job, which that was weird. Right, Well,

617
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:46.360
can I ask you a question? Sure?

618
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:48.960
Why do we give people ADHD medication? Oh?

619
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:49.960
Yeah, no, I get it.

620
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.000
And what happens when yeah, focused and stuff like that. Yeah,

621
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:55.119
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but that's

622
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:55.440
how I.

623
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.079
Know it's funny, and it was a conversation. I would

624
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.639
just say that was weird that he it's less good

625
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:02.880
at his job. I would have thought they would have

626
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:04.920
down the drugs and he would have been like even

627
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.199
better at his job. And also, you know, having a

628
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:10.599
relationship with Luh and all these things are going well,

629
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.480
but of course it's the opposite. But the other thing

630
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.440
that gets me is, so you're putting together these robots

631
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:20.679
that have a nuclear powered head. Don't you think those

632
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:25.639
robots would be better? Putting together the robots than drug humans?

633
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.079
Why is you know, to me, that was just like,

634
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:30.360
what are the humans for there?

635
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.360
Now the Dunans are there there, they're there to make

636
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:35.239
their captors.

637
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:40.440
Yeah, well move into Logan's run. Everything is done for you.

638
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:43.519
So now you are a leisure class and we have

639
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.679
to do something to get rid of you because now

640
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:49.119
you're a leisure cast, consuming until age twenty nine. Then

641
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.440
we're going to zap you in the carousel. So to me,

642
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:54.320
it's like, oh, that's the beginning of Logan's Run. They

643
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.360
just haven't gotten the point where the robots are making

644
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:57.360
of robots yet.

645
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:02.119
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we don't have Box yet, right, we

646
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:03.880
have a Box that was a little bit of a

647
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:09.599
throwback there we go. Box. Okay, yeah, Boxes Class, go

648
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:12.239
back and listen to our Logan's Run as we talk

649
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:14.679
about the incredible robot.

650
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:16.440
Box is amazing.

651
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:21.000
So something I thought was really interesting was this confessional.

652
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:23.480
It's almost like you're talking to a priest, but really

653
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:27.639
you're talking to a recording yeah with the image with

654
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:29.960
the image of Christ, and the voice comes down and

655
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.360
it's going yes, uh huhm, And how did that make

656
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.400
you feel? You know, it's just and and they do

657
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.480
this a couple of times, so you get to hear it,

658
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:43.760
but then he ends up by saying something along the

659
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:49.199
lines of work hard, avoid accidents by more. I don't

660
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:51.119
know if you noticed this, because it's like there's a

661
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.599
lot of stuff that just happens. There's one scene where

662
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:56.320
THHX goes into some store and he buys this, like

663
00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:58.719
I'm assuming he buys. He goes in and he's like

664
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.000
looking and he comes out with this red what is it,

665
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.159
like a dough deca hydron hub or something like that,

666
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:05.880
and then he puts it on the table when he

667
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:07.760
gets back in, and then at some point he just

668
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.920
comes right around and just puts it into the disposal. Yeah, okay,

669
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.880
so we're just buying stuff to throw it away because

670
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:15.320
that's what we do.

671
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:17.119
Where would you put it? I don't think there are

672
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:18.280
any shelves in the house.

673
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:22.440
No, no, Well, and like you said, everything in this

674
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:27.400
film is white. Everybody has no hair. Any kind of

675
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.719
individuality or humanity is pretty much stripped from him. They

676
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.480
used a lot of extras from this Sentanon drug rehabilitation

677
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:39.599
facility where everybody already had bald heads as part of

678
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:43.039
the treatment. Guess what they turned out to be a cult?

679
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:48.239
Oh? I think I saw a documentary or something on

680
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:52.440
that because they were in like a mansion or something. Yeah, yeah,

681
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.719
that's crazy, So that was crazy.

682
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:56.639
So I think we've kind of hit on a lot

683
00:37:56.679 --> 00:37:59.679
of stuff here. One of the things that in George

684
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:02.880
Luke when he was at film school, a lot of

685
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.679
the types of student films that he would make is

686
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:10.000
what they call tone poems. The idea here was that

687
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:16.559
the narrative was not really important, the character development wasn't

688
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:20.000
really important. It was more of this mood and aesthetic

689
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.280
that drove the film along. I think when you look

690
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:28.159
at THHX eleven thirty eight, it feels a lot like that.

691
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:32.719
The characters, for me, I don't think were ever really

692
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:36.760
developed at all. That's a criticism that people would level

693
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:38.199
at Lucas for years.

694
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.400
I always have a hard time when you criticize character

695
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:45.840
development on something as short as a movie. I think

696
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:49.880
it's probably this movie earned him that reputation of not

697
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:53.480
having a lot of character development, and people just kept

698
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:57.559
that criticism on through. But when you're dealing with characters

699
00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.960
like in Star Wars or in Raiders of the Law

700
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.599
Stark and things like that, where you know they're playing

701
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:05.840
an archetype, right, Oh, good work. They're playing a hero,

702
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:10.320
they're playing the Western hero, they're playing the sage advisor.

703
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:13.079
You know how much development do you get from that? Right?

704
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.840
And maybe that's why it's hard for us with something

705
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.880
like THX eleven thirty eight, because none of these characters

706
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:20.480
fit an archetype, right.

707
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:20.760
Yeah.

708
00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:24.000
Yeah, you always feel like maybe they've been purposefully held

709
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.639
off at arms length. It's hard to really connect with them.

710
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.639
For me, the first person whom I really liked, who

711
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:35.679
I thought showed any emotion whatsoever, was when Don pedro

712
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.920
Coley shows up in the third act. It feels like

713
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:42.840
that the narrative begins to take shape and it starts

714
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:47.480
to focus on the end where THX is now fully

715
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.000
awake and he's trying to get out.

716
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.079
So I will go back to my theme about Adam

717
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:54.639
and Eve, and I will tell you that I think

718
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:58.079
the writing on this film really missed a cool thing.

719
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:01.480
If you realize Luh was one that switched the pills.

720
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:04.760
Eluh was the one that gave the apple. Sure, he

721
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.320
was the first one that switched her pills. Then she

722
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:11.239
got her mate to switch the pills and had sex.

723
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:14.800
This is very analogous to Adam and eve. You know,

724
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:18.000
they then started covering themselves with the big leaves, and

725
00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:21.119
they didn't do that before because now they know shame okay,

726
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.360
And it would have been great if they had escaped

727
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.719
together out into this garden of Eden. To me, that

728
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:28.920
would have been a fantastic movie. That would have been

729
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:31.960
an amazing movie. Maybe it would have been a little

730
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.719
bit too obvious, but to me, I think there's a

731
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:37.519
lot of undercurrent there of that sort of thing.

732
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:41.320
I did think that the fate of lu H was

733
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:42.480
it kind of hit hard.

734
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.320
No, God, it was horrible. Let's not share that.

735
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.559
We'll leave that for folks to explore.

736
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:50.440
Leave that, we leave that for an exercise for the readers.

737
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.559
Since we did talk about George Lucas's youth and his

738
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:58.840
obsession with speed and cars, what did you think of

739
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:00.880
those Formula one racing Oh?

740
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.159
Yeah, those were cool and they were driving them all

741
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:05.440
around with the little bubble thing.

742
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:05.960
Yeah.

743
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.440
The funniest scene of the whole movie is SRT trying

744
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.079
to get into one of them. He's a tall man.

745
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.800
Yeah, physically, I mean like physically just big, not fat

746
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:16.920
or anything, but just big.

747
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:18.800
I think they must have taken the seat out of

748
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:21.000
that car. To get him in there, because I was

749
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:22.719
watching it going, he ain't gonna fit in that, and

750
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:24.199
then you see his head drop down.

751
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:26.559
There's lots of shots in here, and I'm gonna say

752
00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:29.800
that if you watch this movie, what you have to

753
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.760
watch it for is not the story. Yeah, okay, I

754
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.639
think the story kind of comes with what you're really

755
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:38.760
looking at is you're looking at George Lucas. You're looking

756
00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:42.079
at how he's positioning the camera, how people are pushing buttons,

757
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:44.559
and in your mind you start to think, oh my gosh,

758
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:46.719
that's like when they push the buttons to light the

759
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:50.039
Death Star laser, or you hear these sound effects that

760
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:52.079
are happening, and in your mind you're going, wow, this

761
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:56.320
sounds a lot like you know, the land speeder or something.

762
00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:00.360
The remote control arms, remember those that drop the nuclear thing? Yeah,

763
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:02.039
and yeah, you're right.

764
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:05.400
Even the cops begins to give you this idea of

765
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:08.400
C three ps. So you're starting to see the genesis

766
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.280
of ideas. Even the idea of oppression and rebellion right

767
00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:17.800
are in THHX. Now they are better realized and much

768
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:21.079
more entertaining in Star Wars, sure, but it is here

769
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.280
in THCHX. And then at the end, you've got this chase.

770
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.079
They're going through this tunnel which looks a lot like

771
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:29.920
a trench. You have a lot of that, and that's

772
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:31.079
the way that you have to watch it.

773
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:33.320
Yeah, I one hundred percent agree.

774
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:35.840
Yeah, I'm not sure if you paid too much attention

775
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:41.280
to the sound design in this film and access at

776
00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:50.760
one point, you.

777
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:52.440
Know, it was definitely an aesthetic feeling that was with

778
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.559
you through the whole film. But as anyone who's listened

779
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:59.119
to this podcast knows, I appreciate that aesthetic, but I

780
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:03.000
don't recognize it for the genius that it might be.

781
00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:09.199
So Yeah, at one point they were editing at his house.

782
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:12.159
George was editing during the day. Walter Merch would come

783
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:15.360
in at night and they started developing their own language.

784
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:17.639
They would say, hey, could you hand me real too

785
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:21.880
dialogue too? Well, saying real too dialogue two took a

786
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:24.360
lot of effort and they decided to short that down.

787
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:27.400
They would say, Hey, give me R two D two

788
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:28.840
And that name came up later.

789
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:31.079
Oh that's cool, that's very cool.

790
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.800
In the chase scene, someone says, hey, I think I

791
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:41.599
just ran over a wookie.

792
00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:43.880
There was one other actor I wanted to ask you

793
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:49.559
about Johnny writs me a little junior. That was so funny.

794
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.320
I was looking forward to seeing Tarzan's son and he

795
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.599
was one of the robots. They had a gold had

796
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:57.280
a gold helmet on the whole time.

797
00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:01.000
That's actually amazing. No, I was gonna say again, this

798
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:03.239
is like one of the things for why you watch

799
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:07.960
credits in seventies films because this had the first on

800
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:12.119
screen credit of David Ogden Steers, who you might remember

801
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:17.119
from the TV show Mash as major Charles Emerson Winchester

802
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:21.840
Steers the third Yeah, and also Cogsworth and Beauty and

803
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:25.840
the Beast. Finally, in the we wish to thank section,

804
00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:29.400
Haskell Wexler's name is there at the end as well.

805
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:32.360
That's nice. And they also thanked BART, which is the

806
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.199
Bay Area Rapid Transit. Yes, so that's the subway system.

807
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:39.199
So they must have filmed some of that tunnel scene

808
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:42.559
in a not yet completed tunnel or an abandoned tunne

809
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:44.880
because they do build those sometimes. So that was cool.

810
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:45.159
Yeah.

811
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.679
Yeah, we need to take a quick break, but we'll

812
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:48.519
be right back.

813
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:51.320
Flash back.

814
00:44:54.039 --> 00:45:01.360
And flash back, welcome back. I think we're about ready

815
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:05.000
to ask the question did thx eleven thirty eight groove

816
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:07.960
through the decades, or did it lose its beat?

817
00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:11.000
Well, I don't want to be too harsh, because here's

818
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:14.360
the real thought. I wish I listened to this podcast

819
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.239
before I saw the film, because I feel like I

820
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:20.760
would have enjoyed it more knowing some of these details

821
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.199
and looking for them. So I could go back in

822
00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:26.599
time and watch it the first time after listening to

823
00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:30.000
this podcast, I probably enjoy it more. So that's a

824
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.679
shout out to our listeners that if you're going to

825
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:35.320
get one up on me, because you'll be prepared to

826
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:38.800
better enjoy this film. I felt like it was an

827
00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:43.320
unfinished film. It was rough around the edges. I thought

828
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.760
Robert Duvall did an amazing job. I also thought the

829
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:50.480
female actress was amazing, and I'm really devastated that she

830
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:53.199
didn't continue her career because I think she had real

831
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:56.039
potentially had a very unique look to her. She's freckle

832
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:59.840
faced and just really very I thought really good on

833
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.000
Scream Sure, as well as Donald Pleasance, who was also

834
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.239
an amazing actor and was great in the film. But

835
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:08.239
it just felt like it was just one of those

836
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:11.079
ones where it's like, Okay, I got the message they're

837
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:14.639
drugging the people. Let's move on. So the whole second

838
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:16.880
act to me was like, are you kidding a remark

839
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.440
in time here? Let's move it along. The third act

840
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:21.119
was a little bit fun because you sort of got

841
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:23.639
the idea that this is a prison without walls and

842
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:25.800
anybody could just leave when they wanted to. So it

843
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:29.280
sort of put things in somewhat a perspective. But again,

844
00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:32.800
like I said, the ending was not to my liking.

845
00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:34.760
I think it could have been done a lot better.

846
00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:38.039
So to me, I have to be with the people

847
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:41.320
of the nineteen seventies who basically declared that this did

848
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:46.119
not groove back then. And I am not sure unless

849
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:49.920
you are a George Lucas sort of fan, this may

850
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.639
not be the film that you would want to watch.

851
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:56.719
And I would also say it is not a film

852
00:46:56.840 --> 00:47:01.000
you would bring a friend to because your friend would

853
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:05.079
need to be equally dedicated to seeing the early works

854
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.639
of a genius, but clearly early works. And so I

855
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:12.159
would say I always judge films like this as could

856
00:47:12.199 --> 00:47:15.000
my wife sit through this? And the answer is no,

857
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:17.159
she would have left, she would have gone to bed.

858
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:20.760
So that's what I think. What about you, Chuck, I

859
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.199
think you might have had a much more positive impression

860
00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:23.960
of this film.

861
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:27.440
Well, I think I've had a little bit more time

862
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:31.159
to to think about about this one. But also too,

863
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:34.320
I'm also realized now I'm coming from having read two

864
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.280
books on George Lucas, so there's a lot that I'm

865
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:40.280
already bringing to the table. So the lift is is

866
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.199
different for me than your. Your reaction is probably a

867
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:48.920
lot more honest and raw because it's what's It's not

868
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:52.079
tainted by a lot of outside information.

869
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.079
It's an everyman opinion. I would agree with that, or

870
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:56.239
every person opinion.

871
00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:00.519
Well, George Lucas's first film is a giant on set

872
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:02.960
and it is swimming in some of the same waters

873
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:06.440
as two thousand and one, a Space Odyssey. It's less

874
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:10.239
of a traditional narrative and much more of an experience.

875
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:13.159
And just like two thousand and one, you're going to

876
00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:17.679
end watching this film asking what's next, But that's not

877
00:48:18.199 --> 00:48:22.920
really the point. Kubrick was exploring the next evolutionary step

878
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:28.239
of mankind shaped by extraterrestrial force. Lucas is doing something different.

879
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:31.280
He's showing us a man who is choosing to leave

880
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.239
a system, a prison where there are no gates where

881
00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:37.440
even the dreaded robot police turn out to be powerless.

882
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:40.920
THHX eleven thirty eight is a bold vision from a

883
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:44.719
twenty four year old filmmaker who clearly has something to say.

884
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:48.239
I just don't think many people were listening at the time.

885
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:53.039
What we're left with is an interesting artifact, maybe Lucas's

886
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:56.880
most honest attempt to tell the kinds of stories that

887
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.599
he wanted to tell, and he would learn from this

888
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.840
he would repackage all of these ideas into Star Wars.

889
00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:05.199
The film didn't groove when it was released, and I

890
00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:09.239
don't think the average moviegoer would feel any different today.

891
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:13.480
But I think the film is absolutely astounding, especially coming

892
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:17.840
from someone that young. Technically, it looks incredible, the sound

893
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:21.039
design is fantastic, and for a film released in nineteen

894
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:25.079
seventy one, it still holds up remarkably well. So for me,

895
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:29.079
this one grooves. But Matt, I'm going to admit this

896
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:30.920
is going to be the kind of film that a

897
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:33.639
lot of people are going to say lost its beat.

898
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:38.079
And my spouse also would not have made it past

899
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:41.960
the first five minutes of this film before checking out.

900
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.519
Yeah, So I mean I do agree with a lot

901
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:49.360
of your points, and it was pretty pretty shocking for

902
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:53.719
a movie released in nineteen seventy one. I don't disagree

903
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:57.320
with your take on it, but I can see why

904
00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:00.880
it did not really smash it box.

905
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:04.800
Office definitely, and I mean Warner Brothers. It scared them

906
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:08.880
to death with what investments they were making into American zotrop.

907
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:12.360
They lost money on this film, but they lost even

908
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.079
more money by not having the Godfather in their stable.

909
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.320
That's being careful and shooting yourself in the foot, which

910
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:23.679
is sure. I really think back about one thing about

911
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:26.599
this film, which I think is remarkable at this point.

912
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:30.800
Robert duval was a big time actor, right. He wasn't

913
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:33.880
small time, was he? Well, I mean he was moderately,

914
00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:36.559
he's certainly bigger than a twenty three year old director.

915
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.320
Let's put it down. Well, so can you imagine a

916
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:44.159
twenty three year old director directing Robert Duvall in this film?

917
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:48.480
To me, it's pretty remarkable that Robert Duvall probably listened

918
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:52.000
to this guy and went, Okay, this guy's got it.

919
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:54.800
And I don't get the film, but you know what,

920
00:50:55.079 --> 00:50:56.679
this is gonna be my ticket.

921
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.760
Robert Duvall in Rain People. He wasn't the leading actor

922
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:04.039
in that film, right for him, THHX eleven thirty eight

923
00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.360
was the first film where he would become a leading actor.

924
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.440
I think maybe it was his relationship with George from

925
00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:14.519
Rain People that actually transition that in there. So I'd

926
00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:16.480
always be curious to see what he thought about the

927
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:17.400
film later, But.

928
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:20.039
I don't know, Yeah, it would be cool to know.

929
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.559
I guess my point really is maybe if he wasn't

930
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:24.440
or was a big actor, he certainly was going to

931
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.000
go on to be, oh, absolutely a huge actor.

932
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:28.880
Monster guy, monster guy.

933
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:32.320
But they think about it, he met this young kid

934
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:36.239
on this crazy movie Rain People, Rain People, and then

935
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:39.679
gets into this movie which is clearly crazy as well,

936
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.480
that he's like, nah, yeah, this guy seems like he's

937
00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:44.320
got it, so I'm going to stick with it.

938
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:47.679
You have this connection of all these people like yeah,

939
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:50.840
Francis for Copeland, George Lucas. I mean, I mean they

940
00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:54.920
there was a lot of money that I'm going to investment. Yeah,

941
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.440
what a friend group. And that It's no accident that

942
00:51:57.559 --> 00:52:01.519
Robert duvall is in so many movies by Francis Ford

943
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:05.039
Coppola in the seventies. I mean, he was in Godfather,

944
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.920
Godfather Part Two, The Conversation, Apocalypse Now and those are

945
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.400
the four big films I believe of Copola in the seventies.

946
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:14.559
So I mean, yeah, there's a lot of what is

947
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:16.400
the word loyalty?

948
00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:17.440
Yeah there? Yeah?

949
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:19.960
Yeah, So well, Matt. That wraps up our coverage on

950
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:23.880
THCHX eleven thirty eight. As part of our Origin Stories month,

951
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:27.800
we're looking at where these legendary directors began, and next

952
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:31.760
time we're shifting from George Lucas to Steven Spielberg. Our

953
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:36.960
next film is his nineteen seventy one television movie Duel, and.

954
00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:39.880
Yeah, it may have started as a TV movie, but

955
00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:43.840
it's also a huge early step in showing just how

956
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:47.119
well Spielberg could build tension and control an audience.

957
00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:50.119
Matt, have you seen Duel before? I have not. You're

958
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.800
gonna love it, so be sure to come back as

959
00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:55.199
we hit the road and find out if Dual still

960
00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:57.599
groves to the decades or if it loses its beat.

961
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:00.000
Thanks for tuning in. Let us know what you thought

962
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.920
what about THX eleven thirty eight. You can reach us

963
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.320
at Cinematicflashback dot com. Don't forget to leave us a

964
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:08.639
rating and a review, it just might get red on

965
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:11.159
the air, good or bad. If you enjoy the show,

966
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:14.519
help us grow by sharing with your friends and neighbors

967
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:18.440
and anybody else you know on the Internet. Join us

968
00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:20.760
next time as we hop back into the wayback machine

969
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:24.480
and head once again to the nineteen seventies for another classic.

970
00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:27.679
We'll see you then flashback.

971
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:37.599
Remember, an interval overdose may cause a serious chemical imbalance.